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Super Victor vs. Victor Jr.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:41 pm    Post subject: Super Victor vs. Victor Jr. Reply with quote

I would like to get everyone's opinion on whether my combination would benefit from a Super Victor.
Current combination:
383 SBC
Sportsman II's with my porting according to Vizards instructions
Victor Jr. with 1" spacer
830 Holley with Annular boosters
10:1 compression
Solid roller with specs 253*,261* at 0.050 - 0.600", 0.620" lift on a 112* seperation with 1.5 rockers installed with a intake centerline of 104*
1 3/4" Super Competition headers
2 1/2" mandrel exhaust with "X" pipe and DynoMax mufflers
Turbo 400 with TCI Street fighter
4.11 rear
26 x 9 x 15 slicks
Cheater nitrous with only 150 shot so far
3900 lbs with driver
Shifts at 7000, have tried lower, but car slows down.
Best motor E.T. - 7.43 at around 94 mph
I think I am on the borderline of the Super helping, but I will be using it on the next motor, so even if it didn't help, it wouldn't be a real loss, just time, and that's free right???????? Thanks, Clay.
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard mixed reviews about the manifold. Most people claim to pick up about a tenth and the motor is more consistant.
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BLK64SS
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ran a Vic. Jr. for years and really liked it. Never ran a Super Vic myself, but a good freind did a same day comparison with them at the track and didnt get any improvements from the Super and went back to the Vic. Jr.
He has a 70' Vette with a 377 runs 10.50's. Personally I think you might gain more from going to a 2" spacer than an intake swap. JMO.
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2x4
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just yanked a super vic off my 383 & heres what I learned Wink

If it will see any street use, the Super Vic is not going to work well. Idling & low rpms are not its high point, atomization is horrible (ask the 4 sets of fouled plugs I have from the 5,000 miles I drove last summer).

Not sure if you have a street/strip car or strip only, but either way I still say keep the JR on there. I'm thinking something else is off on the combo if you have to shift it that high (7K). I did mine at 7200 but that was only a bandaid (my engine was all top-end and I had 3.23 rear gears). Thats not the case with yours.

Compression looks to ba a little low for that cam?
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MaxRaceSoftware
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it will see any street use, the Super Vic is not going to work well. Idling & low rpms are not its high point, atomization is horrible (ask the 4 sets of fouled plugs I have from the 5,000 miles I drove last summer).
========================================

i'm glad to see other people Post ;
what i've posted a year ago or so in other Forums

Edelbrock's SBC Super Victor has 4 inner runner's divider wall coming so far into plenum area that the effective cross-sectional area
"BETWEEN" the 2 opposing dividers "CHOKE-OFF" the 4 inner runner
ports A/F mixture flow

if you look closely at plenum area you will see that flow to feed 2 inner Cylinders has to go thru a cross-sectional area that can feed only 1 Cylinder effectively

i pickup 20 to as much as near 40 HP gains modifing those areas on
500+ HP on up engines

the Super Victor is the superior intake manifold
but not in out-the-box shape !!

very seldom will SV on certain engine combos, will the out-of-box SBC SuperVictor be better than Victor Jr or Victor "E"

Link to extensively modified Super Victor
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/DSC00017.jpg

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_SBC_Plenum2.jpg

notice the much greater distance between the 2 opposing runner dividers in the Link below ;
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_Vortec_Plenum_640_1.jpg

more pics;
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_SBC_Port_Match6.jpg

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_SBC_Port_Match4.jpg

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clay
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Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compression is a little low because the motor was originally built as a blower combo with dish pistons. I gave up on the blow through thing and angle milled the heads pretty heavy to get compression where it is now. The cam is a little big because of the limited tire and nitrous. I was willing to sacrifice some low end torque for more top end charge. Plus you gotta love a small block turning hard. Very Happy I'll try a 2" spacer if I have the hood clearance. I'll check out the links to the modified Super and do them for my next motor maybe. Clay
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey MaxRace that looks like a lot of work, but it makes sense once you see the changes. That looks like a Dominator flange series, but I assume the 4150 series has the same plenum design and problem. Since it appears you have had extensive experience with intakes, heads, etc. what is your pick for the best intake design for maximum power? I am mainly doing research for my next motor which will be a 400 with AFR 227 heads, solid roller, etc. I am open to any brand. AFR has a Proflo, Holley and Brodix all have intakes that appear similiar on the outside, but I haven't seen all of them to look at plenum and runner design. Thanks, Clay
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Hanz
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2003 Dodge Ram

PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
Since it appears you have had extensive experience with intakes, heads, etc. what is your pick for the best intake design for maximum power? I am mainly doing research for my next motor which will be a 400 with AFR 227 heads, solid roller, etc.


Clay- Why don't you ask Max about head choices also- I'll bet you a pitcher of beer that he advises something other than AFRs... Hanz

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea I agree with you Hanz and I'll buy. I just happen to have already bought the AFR's. I have seen some other posts on here that refer to coolant flow problems and I'm sure that there are heads that have the flow with a smaller port volume, especially some of the 18* stuff. I have to stick with a 23* head with a stock exhaust location because of the headers being extremely close to other stuff, but I am very interested in seeing what his head choice would be too. Clay
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osmiumfoot
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clay - to go back to your question about intakes, I picked up a set of AFR 210s and plopped on a Motown single plane witrh no spacer, and the port match out of the box was right on. This is on a 400 with a small hydraulic roller, lots of bottom and a great top. The only problem is I'm now eating distributor gears and the setup sounds like a gear drive but quieter. I'm guessing the shaft hole is machined too far towards the firewall and is loading the two gears together, but that might not be the case. The manifold works very well otherwise, but with a different runner volume, it might not line up as well on your 227s. Any ideas on the gear problem?
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know a few years ago we ran a Trick Flow hydraulic roller cam in a 408 SBF. Our machinist gave us a different distributor gear that he said we had to run. I don't know what it was, it wasn't a bronze gear. Maybe find a good parts guy at a dealership and see if the factory cams require a special gear. I rebuilt a 4.3 and it had a billet cam, but not a bronze gear, again, it has to be something special, but I don't know what. I haven't ran into the problem yet of the hole in the intake being too far off, but I know somebody on Smokemup has. I'll think about it some more. Clay
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MaxRaceSoftware
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clay , sorry for confusion on pics of Super Victors

i should have labeled the pictures

the 1st Link is "extensively" all out modified SuperVictor for DragRacing only... that goes together with the Victor race heads in background

these Links are for normal flange SuperVictor thats just port matched and a littlr plenum rework

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_Vortec_Plenum_640_1.jpg


more pics;
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_SBC_Port_Match6.jpg

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Super_Victor_SBC_Port_Match4.jpg

go to Edelbrocks website and i think they have a picture of the Stock plenum area on a Super Victor to compare the work i've done

you can put a 1 or 2 inch spacer and help the problem out a little, but reworking that divider problem is the real answer/fix for Cylinder heads that are capable of flowing a lot of CFM

just a good port match and a little plenum divider work is all you would need for the combo you posted you're running

another good Intake is GM's Bowtie intake in various versions
raised/normal

but the Super Victor is a very good Intake, just not out of box shape,
unless you have a mild engine combo, the Super Victor needs some port work

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Hanz
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
Yea I agree with you Hanz and I'll buy. I just happen to have already bought the AFR's. I have seen some other posts on here that refer to coolant flow problems and I'm sure that there are heads that have the flow with a smaller port volume, especially some of the 18* stuff. I have to stick with a 23* head with a stock exhaust location because of the headers being extremely close to other stuff, but I am very interested in seeing what his head choice would be too. Clay


Nothing wrong with a good 23* motor, 18* would be a major expense including shaft rockers, new intake, pushrods, maybe lifters, pistons, etc...

Guess Max didn't have a head recomendation...?

Hanz

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clay- Why don't you ask Max about head choices also- I'll bet you a pitcher of beer that he advises something other than AFRs... Hanz

Guess Max didn't have a head recomendation...?

Hanz
====================================

i like the Dart Pro 1 alum heads for good all around performance

the Dart Iron Eagles , Dart Sportsman II , ProAction / ProTopLine when castings have no core-shift also are great, as well as , AFR and Brodix Track 1 heads ...you can make all these heads work after you port them correctly

the AFRs are quick and easy to port,
but i just make more HP and Torque with Dart Pro 1 or Iron-Eagles
and ProAction/ProTopLine
on more serious type engines

if you didn't have to compromise..the GM Chevy 18 or 15 deg heads
or the GM canted valve heads would make a ton of Torque and HP
on your 400 cid future engine

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Chevy_canted_chamber_exh_800x600.jpg

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/Chevy_canted_chamber_2.jpg

ProAction 23 deg heads
http://www.maxracesoftware.com/DSC000144.jpg

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

with a small hydraulic roller, lots of bottom and a great top. The only problem is I'm now eating distributor gears and the setup sounds like a gear drive but quieter
=================================

i hope you have a bronze alloy gear on your distributor ??

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