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HP EFI CNP upgrade
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No it did not do this before the upgrade of the ignition/alternator. Voltage is solid at least on the voltmeter i have in the dash. I have to change the POS headlight switch first anyway since it shouldn't have 3 detents. The remaining laptop checks will happen tomorrow. Work and Volleyball ate up most of my day along with my older daughter coming back from college today. At least i have a new headlight switch and toggle switch to control the ignition and isolate that coil relay circuit. I will certainly post what I find or don't find.
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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Found the wiring schematics for the car online. Sure as shit they connected the switched ignition wire and the headlight power source wires together so the surge although brief when I pull the switch is enough to pull down the circuit and kill the coil relays. Going to jump the relays and sort this out. Programming changes to be done since I know I need a TPS re-sync and some hot start enrichment adjustments.
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad you found it Paul. Electrical gremlins can drive you nuts: and with apologies to Keith digital is even worse without a fast dual trace scope . Them electrons are fast as greased lightning and I'm slowing with age. Can't even see them, even if I'm wearing my specs.

Actually I wish I could find a device that is similar to my APC UPS. IT has a power analyzer that records every dip and spike with a trace in memory along with a record of the power that allows me to call up the power company and complain. They say no way you can have those issues right up until I give them the print out. Turns out they drop me like a hot potato twice a day to keep their load level by handing my substation off to another power company.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when i install EFI on older cars with factory electrical systems, i always give the EFI its own system. what i mean by that is, i will take an ignition on wire from either the key switch or the fuse block (must be powered while cranking) and use that to turn on a 70 amp relay. from the relay, i run a power bus and use that for all of my additional key on power connections. next thing i do is install a ground bus. take the ground to the bus directly from wherever the battery ground connects. on our builds, its the back of the head. the reason i do this is because, for one, there's not adequate power supply out of the factory fuse block. and two... the older cars ground accessories through the body and chassis. by now all of those grounds are corroded, painted, or have bondo on the sheet metal. the biggest issue i run into is inadequate grounds.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
when i install EFI on older cars with factory electrical systems, i always give the EFI its own system. what i mean by that is, i will take an ignition on wire from either the key switch or the fuse block (must be powered while cranking) and use that to turn on a 70 amp relay. from the relay, i run a power bus and use that for all of my additional key on power connections. next thing i do is install a ground bus. take the ground to the bus directly from wherever the battery ground connects. on our builds, its the back of the head. the reason i do this is because, for one, there's not adequate power supply out of the factory fuse block. and two... the older cars ground accessories through the body and chassis. by now all of those grounds are corroded, painted, or have bondo on the sheet metal. the biggest issue i run into is inadequate grounds.


Keith, I took that very same approach and it bit me. I used the large pink IGN wire that goes into the body bulkhead connector which feeds the coil resistance wire on the engine compartment side of it. The trick back when I was upgrading my ignition power source was to pull this wire out of the bulkhead/fuse panel and connect the ignition directly to it bypassing the resistance wire and giving the new ignition a full 12V high current source. Sadly the headlights apparently share this circuit once the ignition switch energizes it. Basically it works but then if there is a spike from the headlight switch which doesn't use a relay it will briefly drop the voltage enough to open the ignition relays for the coil packs. Basically it does work but then it doesn't work. Be careful and run a dedicated switch from the battery to a relay or relays to avoid a circuit such as mine in an older car.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a power bus and a dedicated ground strap for my electronics but I ditch the factory wiring as it is in my opinion undersized and old and brittle by now in these muscle cars.

I use 14 gage wire for most ten amp loads and eight gage for 30 Amp and increase the gage size by two numbers if it runs over eight feet. If it ran over twelve feet I used a Bosch relay rated for the load. Rather than using fuses I used circuit breakers as I didn't want to be stranded with no fuse.

I used 250V SPST rocker switches from Granger (Carling Technologies) in an aluminum panel for my switches as opposed to a factory ignition switch or a light switch. (have to use a momentary contact switch for the starter). Other than the light part of the illuminated switch not working with 12 Volt DC circuits my rewire worked well and since I didn't buy my label maker till later it made it harder to steal the car as most couldn't figure out how to even start it.

Only had low beams in the grill but had Cibie 300,000 candle power driving lights and fog lights below the bumper for night time driving, and to convince some one to dim their high beams.
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well it is all good now. Dedicated coil relay switch from the battery cured the headlight killing the car issue.

I did resync the TPS as it was off quite a bit because the idle screw had backed off. I had the secondaries open a bit too much and the idle screw on the primaries was not compressing the spring to hold a set.

Anyway I played a bit and re-tuned the car which was needed since I am using the Torco accelerator octane booster with pump gas. Ran great so I am excited to put more miles on the car this year since this gas is about $4.50/gallon instead of $10.50/gal or more for C12.

Of course it started to rain when I was ready to take it out and drive it.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
Be careful and run a dedicated switch from the battery to a relay or relays to avoid a circuit such as mine in an older car.


yeah, i did a lousy job of explaining that. thanks for pointing out the need to run the power wire from the battery. Cool

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how tight is that secondary idle set screw? ive had a couple that were a bit loose and the idle speed would creep up. i just used a sharp center punch and staked it. keep up with that TPS auto reset. it will get really weird if you make primary throttle adjustments and don't calibrate the TPS. ask me how i know Embarassed

funny, we have perfect weather every weekend.... unless i want to drive the Olds disgusted

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One thing I have seen from this site is that we are all for the most part tetanus bastards!! LOL
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Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
One thing I have seen from this site is that we are all for the most part tetanus bastards!! LOL


The disease? LOL

Yeah still having issue with the cold start now. Moved the IAC park up 10% to see what happens next cold start. Self tuning still needed at the top end. Got it up to about 5200 in high gear last night and it was sputtering and then cleaning up. Need a dyno or the track to tune it properly loaded.

Secondary screw is gripping no issues with it moving. Once it is close I have a set of Denso iridium's to put in it.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Mon May 15, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is your IAC Parked at now? some do take a lot. what cold start issue are you having? dont forget about the cranking fuel and after start enrichment tables.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The IAC park, crank fuel and after start enrichment tables are in the same place they were when it was batch fire. I have to hold the throttle open a little to get it started so the IAC parked is what I am looking at first. The crank table is certainly the next place to look. Trial and error. Been to busy to try anything just yet. Some paying car work and family vehicles needed some attention first. I'll keep you posted on what I find that cures the issue.
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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View user's profile Send private message
Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Over an hour of trial and error but looks to not have paid off cold or hot driving it this evening. TPS has been set to around 5% at idle and in gear it adjusts fine. Learning is on and it has a relatively smooth idle. Crank fuel had to drop and IAC curve had to go up quite a bit. I noticed that the crank timing was 12.5 degrees which isn't enough so that is changed. The other thing I am thinking about is fuel pressure. It might be too high because my crank fuel is now 10 and IAC is near 80. Pulling some fuel out by reducing fuel pressure might be the key since it is basically acting like there is too much injector. I also noticed I can set up a combo strategy for low vacuum motors using Alpha-N for low rpm and Speed Density for high rpm. I am going to look at trying that too.
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

is that IAC count while idling? your throttle blades are too far closed if your IAC counts are 80. i usually shoot for 15-20. that will have a huge affect on startup. i set cranking timing to around 14. what is your IAC Parked? i usually run about 58 psi on the fuel pressure. make sure the setup is right on the injectors. that will make things weird. remember, you cant make system adjustments if you are "online". how much is the learn table correcting?
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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