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Looking for the right fit...

 
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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
518.62 points


1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: Looking for the right fit... Reply with quote

Good day everyone!

I am putting this here because someone mentioned an LS-7 would be a good fit... Please read my post in New People to get a better understanding and back-story.

I am trying to figure out what I need to be looking for in terms of engines. I want to drop the block in my 99 DeVille (V8 Northstar), and replace it with something else, something a little lean, and a little more mean. I LOVE to drive cross country, but I also love high performance. I am not looking for a true 'sleeper', I just want to put those ricer's in their place with my backseat and trunk full of 4 days worth of driving junk. I am willing to basically remove everything on that car and replace with new/better, and maybe mod a few things (Hint: I want to put a thin structure on the roof in which I can put cameras that film all sides of the car. I would also like to near perma mount a radar detector there as well, just a few of my ideas..) with the exception of changing any of the outside drastically. I still want her to have her figure.

Also, I would love to make my ole' girl a Manual, but I don't know where to even begin with that.

Please be advised, I am not very knowledgable on engines, but I am VERY good with my hands and once I've got my mind on something it will get done. It helps that I did take an Automtive Electronics class, but since I am currently in Afghanistan I can not persue any Automitve Engineering courses right now. It also help that my uncle and step father have both built there own cars, so when the time comes I will be using their skills and learning from their knowledge if possible.
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
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Location: Tampa Florida
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your Caddy is basically an up scale Chevy Caprice. The same adapters that allow you to drop an LS-x motor into the Chevy will work with your Caddy (there are complete kits with mounts and headers in a box where all you do is bolt it up).

I wouldn't switch over to a manual tranny (there are parts available such as pedals bell housings and clutch parts because the Chevy offered a five speed back in the days of the Impala SS sharing your body), I would instead take the six speed automatic 6L80e tranny that is found behind the LS-7 in a Corvette as one part when you buy one out of a rolled and flipped recovered stollen 'vette. The automatic is a much better tranny than a manual would be in a cross country drive or in the city.

All you need to make this happen is a bucket full of cash. Fourteen grand for the motor:

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?partnumber=LS7

or you could build your own out of junk yard parts

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/1027_enginebuild.html

and another $2,340 for the transmission:

http://gmpartsonline.net/parts/2011/CHEVROLET/CORVETTE/Z06/?siteid=215055&vehicleid=1446649&section=AUTOMATIC%20TRANSMISSION

Another possibility because your car was one of the last full frame rear wheel drive cars is a GMPP ZZ502 caburetored crate motor that costs less than the LS-7 and has similar performance statistics

http://www.gmpowertrainwarehouse.com/19201332.asp

vs the LS-7

http://www.gmpowertrainwarehouse.com/19244098.asp

Big Dave
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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
518.62 points


1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am almost literally drooling over both of those. I think though I am going to jump for the 502. I'm pretty sure ole' Bettie's chassis can handle it, and I do like the price. Do you think I should still get that same transmission for it as well?

Thank you so much for your advice and knowledge. If I didn't like women, the ring would be on the way.
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave wrote:
your car was one of the last full frame rear wheel drive cars

Big Dave


i was wondering about it being rear wheel drive.

keep in mind, if you go with EFI, youre going to have to tune the engine and trans. mail order tunes are useless unless you want worse performance that you would get with an out of the box carb. i doubt you are in an emission county so i would do a carbed LS in a heartbeat.

BTW, a 6 speed manual trans would be pretty damn cool in that car.

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
518.62 points


1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et:

Thank you! I spent 2+ years in Germany and a little more time in surrounding countries. I actually prefer a manual while driving inner city, or long distance, considering a manual was all I drove for those two years, and at times (especially in Paris.. Ohh god Paris...) in VERY cramped and aggresive driving areas. Plus I like manuals on long distances not only because it helps me keep my mind on the road, but also when that douche pulls up next to me in his little wiener mobile, I can drop it from 5th (or 6th) into 4th or 3rd and lay down some rubber. Also Germans truly taught me how to be exceptionally gas efficient with a manual. It would be pretty cool to get a 6 speed in there. Maybe I can find one from the new Vetts that might be able to work?
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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
518.62 points


1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the double post here just had another question pop into my mind:

If I do get that ZZ502 Big Dave, will i be able to modify it later on? Like maybe add a turbo, intake, other performance stuff? I've always wanted a Twin Turbo, but I am not even sure if you can just slap on a twin turbo onto anything or if it requires a specific type of engine.

Edit:
Uncle says I need to worry about getting a Transaxle Front Drive Trans... Do I need too? If so where the hell do I even start??!?

Also 10sec:
I just realised the the tuneing part of your post. So please explain to me what exactly is tuning for and why is it bad 'mail order'? If not mail order should I do it myself, or should I find a pro near by to do it? Sorry but as I said before I am almost retarded when it comes to this kind of stuff. But I am here and I am willing to learn. For the sake of Bettsie.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your car is wrong wheel drive then the ZZ502 will not fit, It is just too big to squeeze under the hood with a transmission sitting in there side saddle.

The LS-x series of engines was used in front wheel drive Caddy's (CTS-V) and the Cadillac rear wheel drive HSV model. Because they made it fit once you don't have to work overtime to replace your ailing Northstar with another LS-x motor. In fact the Cadillac front drive, intake and oil pan are the closest size wise to the small block Chevy it was designed to replace.

As to your question:

If I do get that ZZ502 Big Dave, will i be able to modify it later on? Like maybe add a turbo, intake, other performance stuff? I've always wanted a Twin Turbo, but I am not even sure if you can just slap on a twin turbo onto anything or if it requires a specific type of engine.

Yes the ZZ502 would take to turbo charging like a duck to water. The entire motor is built out of heavy duty forged parts, so you could easily double the power out put with turbos and alcohol-water injection.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i did a bit of searching. that Caddy is "wrong wheel drive" as Dave says. that means the LS or 502 wont work without a LOT of custom fabrication. not a task for a beginner.

that being said, a couple turbos on the Northstar would be the way to go. i think the main issues will be getting a good set of rods and a better (stronger) crank. custom pistons can be ordered for just about anything. you will also need a custom tune. no way someone halfway across the country can tune your ECM and get it right without the car. it might be close but, on a turbo setup, close usually breaks parts. its not that hard to find a shop to tune a turbo car. there are plenty here in Houston. i know i probably created more questions than i answered but with research and a lot of patience, it can be done.

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
518.62 points


1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh man. Talk about heart breakers. I was really excited about that 502. Is there no way I could replace the whole tranny with something that would fit the 502 to the wrong wheel drive? What do you mean by custome fabrication? Trust me I am willing to go out of my way. Being that my home station is actually Fort Hood (killeen) texas, and that I am a soldier, I bet I could find ALOT of help if need be. I will not have a relatively brief dream abashed so easily!!

What? I can put a turbo on the Northstar?! I've specifically looked into this before, and was told in no kind words that it was an almost impossible task...
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

you have one of these, correct ?





if so, you engine compartment looks like this....






that being said, you have a Transaxle like this....





see where the issues come in with different engines ? you cant make it rear wheel drive without cutting up the entire car. that is a complete car rebuild. absolutely EVERYTHING must be rebuilt from scratch including the interior. now, to put a different engine other than the Northstar, you would have to be able to mate it with the transaxle. sure, you could build an adapter plate but youre going to run into clearance issues really fast. not to mention problems that will pop up halfway through the project that no one even thought of. as far as turbos, i have seen lawnmowers with turbos. so anyone that says its impossible obviously doesnt have much engineering ability. the bottom line is.... what CAN you and your associates fabricate on your own ?

BTW, we are currently building a car that will have a twin turbo "baby" Northstar engine.

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Broly3k8
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Joined: 21 Feb 2013
Posts: 9
Location: Afghan
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1999 Cadillac Seville

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so now that all you evil jerks have built my dreams up and then thoroughly crushed them, other then spiking the egg nog in the Northstar, are there any 'wrong wheel' drive sideways engines I could put in this old girl? I swear to gosh, if one of you gets me all hopped up on some crazy T Dragster engine that is affordable, then is like 'Oh wait, your muffler wont fit, never mind' I am going to personally drive my tank-like cadi thru your living room..
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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing
I would build a Turbo Nstar in a moment if I needed....
I have a friend running one in a Nostalgia rail that runs 8.50's NA..

260" and wrong wheel drive with turbo and posi would be wicked..... Evil or Very Mad
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broly3k8 wrote:
are there any 'wrong wheel' drive sideways engines I could put in this old girl?



well, since you asked........... Devil


there is the Olds Toronado thats "wrong wheel drive". its made its way into a lot of unusual builds such as this...



it will even accept a big block Olds. of course, it would probably be easier to build the Northstar with one or two turbos. you will need a lot of specialized assistance with an Olds. its definitely not as forgiving as the others if you make mistakes. besides that, you will most definitely have to rework the firewall and core support to fit all of it in a Caddy. those old Toronados had hoods big enough to land a plane on Laughing .

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It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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phydeaux
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007
Posts: 84

3114.12 points


1997 Oldsmobile Aurora

PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gonna drag up a really old thread, sorry.

10sec, do tell on the twin turbo 4.0!!!

If this project is still in the works, here ya go:

http://chrfab.com/Engines.htm

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FASTER!!! FASTER!!! Until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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