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Plans for the Cummins
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:01 pm    Post subject: Plans for the Cummins Reply with quote

Well, I know this is a site for hot rods and muscle cars, but here is the news. Finally after 4 years of living in South Carolina, I am making enough money to fulfill my goals. I have searched for many drag car rolling chassis to purchase, but I realized the next drag project was in my driveway the whole time. That's right, Black Betty, the single cab dually with the 12v Cummins is my next drag project. Being a dually, its already "tubbed". There is hours of labor and thousands saved before I did anything. I have recently purchased an extra set of dually wheels so I can have them welded together, balanced, and fit a drag slick with a tube on them. Unconventional i know, but cool nonetheless.

On the way within the next 2 months is a Belltech lowering kit, bigger turbo, 5x.012 injectors, head studs, 3.5k governor springs, bigger valve springs, and having the transmission built by a nearby company around christmas time with a long handle ratchet shifter. I will then advance the fuel timing appropriately, and stick in line-lock. Will not be going with a trans-brake, as i need torque converter to build spool.

My question is, does anyone recommend a good turbo? I hear mixed emotions on the Aurora turbos off ebay, and honestly, for $500 more I can get real name turbos that I personally trust more. Also, does anyone have just general advice when it comes to best torque converter stall to run with? Or any random advice? I tried joining the dodge cummins forum, but too annoying to fill out all that crap.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw on a episode of trucks where they modified a Cummins diesel and they had to change two or three factory original Cummings parts before bolting on a Turbo (one of those parts was a well known source of fuel supply issues even in stock form, the other was a pin that protrudes out to far and hits some rotating part that is critical causing a lot of damage). I am sure there are Cummings boards with more knowledgeable people that can offer informed advise.

Second thing is to forget welding two wheels together. The 4x4 crowd use tires that are huge and they are mounted on fifteen inch diameter eight lug bead lock one piece aluminum wheels that will easily accept a slick.

Big Dave
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave was talking about the killer dowel pin that clocks the pump and will fall out. I paid a friend $1500 to put a new cover in mine. As far as turbo's you need a big ass cooler to keep the heat out of the engine.

The modified fuel plate was my best investment BUT now it will blow through the converter with my foot.

You said advance fuel timing? That is wrong!! You need a modified plate period. The jack ass I bought mine from thought you could just shove the plate forward. Nope not close.
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clay
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know much about diesels but I would recommend talking to Cameron at Torque Converter Service for a converter. He's very sharp and can build you about anything plus you have the advantage of being somewhat local depending on where you're located at in SC. Clay
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2014 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will give him a call. And af2, i purchased and installed the fuel plate you recommended to me a few months back. Well, I think you recommended a #6, I ended up buying the #5. Was an awesome investment, power increases were immediately noticeable. Yeah, it pulls through my torque converter, but no big deal, a new one is coming soon. I also just ordered a b&m shift kit and all new ball joints, the ball joints were necessary, it was getting quite clicky and poppy, especially from the front left.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torque converters are activated by engine torque. This is why stall speeds differ when comparing a torque converter behind a 454 compared to the 302.

Diesels make torque in spades. It will require a custom made torque converter based upon your measured engine torque. Most towns have a Cummins diesel repair shop with a chassis dyno or engine dyno available.

Big Dave
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af2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right on Tim. The 5 is a good one.

Dave when I say blow through the converter I am talking the lock up clutch in high gear. It locks up but if you put too much steam to it, it slips just like a bad clutch in a manual.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

exactly. only in lock up, if I hit the throttle high enough without it down shifting, it will start pulling through it and vibrate and raise rpms. obviously i no longer push it like that because im slowly building up this transmission, I dont need metal shavings swimming around in the mean time. as far as the torque converter is concerned, if i have one built specifically to that engine, it will not be matched to what it will be by next summer, so I figured I just buy a low stall triple disk, which will hold up just fine until im ready to have one built.

Now with this shift kit coming in any day now, im wondering what fluid a 47rh loves best. Some people say atf+4, I like the idea of dextron III, and others say ford type f is the most sticky. I like the idea of a more sticky fluid, but what do you guys think is the best option? Honestly I was told atf+4 is the way to go, but appearantly it slips the most which is opposite of what I want.
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af2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATF 4 and forget it. The solenoids wont like the other fluids.


FYI I don't run Ford fluid in any trans. There is a reason they run the same as others this day.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

shift kit just came in, better off with the towing or hp performance? Comfort is not an issue.
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af2
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Both LOL.

Hp is not at all drastic shifts.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah i figured that much. I've never installed one before but assumed its not going to make a huge difference between the two. Might as well install all the hardware they give me, hell I paid for it, so use it all. I'm going to attempt to make my current torque converter last until spring, cant promise anything. But I did order a 3 inch intake manifold because it was only 120 bucks, but seeing how the manifold is after the turbo, will it really make any difference? Ill admit, I bought it just to look cool. If I'm going to start dumping money into the old girl, I at least want to see a little difference too, rather then just feel it.
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clay
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for shift kits what I've seen is it depends. Most of the time I go for the firmest shift available but on a 200-4R you can get into a very harsh shift. This is only a problem with a stock (tight) converter as a decent stall covers the shift up and it's fine. TH350 and TH400 I haven't had this issue. I agree with you and af2 - I would start with the firmest option since you can get into stupid torque pretty quick. Years ago at Bowman I remember a guy that had a Dodge that was really moving. Talked to his buddy about the truck and some of their weight saving ideas were interesting. I remember it was a long bed they cut down to a shortbed and the front of the bed was pop riveted in. They dropped the fuel tank and had a small cell in the bed and removed about half of the leafs from the springs. Seems like they chopped something like 800 lbs off of it but of course it was still heavy. Ran it in 4WD and it had some sort of drag radials all around and would spin all 4 wheels on launch. At the time they were having problems with nitrous as it was slower when they sprayed it. I wish I could remember their e.t. but it was really cool to watch. Clay
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is an interesting idea. I already had plans to replace rear bumper with a fiberglass roll pan, obviously remove spare tire, grab a fiberglass hood. I like that bed idea. Honestly, I wouldnt be upposed to cutting a big square out of the bed and riveting in a large sheet of ribbed aluminum. If I could find a way to shed 800lbs without destroying the trucks usability, I could see doing that in a heartbeat.

But anyways, I installed the shift kit last night, and let me first say, that sucked! Everyone makes it sound easy and quick, I've never been that stressed in a long time. Especially when springs and pieces would spring at a thousand miles an hour into the lawn and i had to spend an hour searching for them. I dont think Ill do that again, ide rather pay someone. But cruising around, it snaps nicely into each gear, and if I all out floor it, it doesnt search to find the next gear giving a pleasant 2 second stop in acceleration, it grabs the next one and rolls on. Definitely worth 80 bucks. And af2, I ran all atf+4 and it seems to love it.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doing them in the vehicle does suck sometimes. I've installed all the ones I've done during a rebuild so it is a lot easier on the stand. I have had to pull valve bodies back out for adjustments though and I'll say it kinda sucks. Glad your install turned out good. Clay
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