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jeep_406 Member

Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 1621 Location: Tewksbury, Mass 01876 51773.50 points
1972 Chevrolet Nova
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Posted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:19 pm Post subject: Cam Suggestions: |
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I'm throwing together a 355 SBC that we're putting in a Nostalgia Dragster. The engine will be used to straighten out the car as it's being put together from scratch.
The engine has flat top cast pistons and stock 1.94/1.50 old cylinder heads. I'll do a multi face valve job and mildly port them, nothing serious. I'll probably pin the screw in studs. Talk about old school!
We were going to use a 350/350 hydraulic cam in it but when I degreed the cam it's much less than that. Thought I'd stay with a hydraulic flat tappet cam with no more than .500 lift. The thought being that when we get the car squared away the owner could sell it as a street engine.
The owner is planning on running dual quads on a tunnel ram. I'm thinking we should just run a single 4 barrel til we build a more serious engine. Any thoughts?
The dragster will weigh around 1600 pounds. |
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Paul P Member

Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Posts: 1940 Location: Townsend, Mass. 66889.02 points
1971 Chevrolet Chevelle
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jeep_406 Member

Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 1621 Location: Tewksbury, Mass 01876 51773.50 points
1972 Chevrolet Nova
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:25 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks Paul, I was thinking of the XE284H. Hydraulic flat tappet might be easier to sell. I'll check out the solid. |
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Paul P Member

Joined: 15 Aug 2002 Posts: 1940 Location: Townsend, Mass. 66889.02 points
1971 Chevrolet Chevelle
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 10:46 am Post subject: |
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Sure thing Jeep. He is putting dual quads on this thing? I would say there is not enough motor to use them. Oh well if he is going that route I would think more cam and compression the better to use them. _________________ 2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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Big Dave Moderator

Joined: 04 Dec 2005 Posts: 2437 Location: Tampa Florida 111706.68 points
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I am running off memory here but in my opinion, two fours on a tunnel ram is more streetable than most people think. It acts more like a self priming mechanical individual runner fuel injection induction system than two fours on top of an old school low rise dual quad manifold does (Like I used to have on my 409).
On the street if he is going to continue to run the two fours you will have to pay close attention to the accelerator pump circuit (pump, cams and squirters). On the track getting the power valve the right size is more important. If it weren't for the hole in the hood, it is what I would run on the street again.
If you don't want the hole in the hood there is always the option of a cross ram if you can find the manifold on e-Bay. If you go the cross ram route you are going to get the best performance if you fabricate up a balance tube connecting the two plenums made out of one and a half inch copper pipe silver soldered together.
I would use a solid roller over a solid flat tappet as I run both cars on the street with a solid roller without issue (but I do live way out in the country with next to no stop and go driving). With a solid roller oiling is an issue so if you are anticipating city driving I recommend self oiling tappets like Isky's Red Zone (they do run $650 a set which is probably more than you have in the motor, but you can reuse them for the rest of your life as they are rebuildable and seem to last forever as is).
I choose a cam based upon the head on the motor (I can change the compression to match the cam's requirements before it goes together), the car's weight and it's gearing to optimize my torque curve. In your case I suspect the noise it makes is of higher priority as it will spend it's life at cackle fests just idling; and at most, having to do a burn out to please the crowd. For your application a longer duration shorter LISA is the "best" cam.
On your nostalgia digger what kind of tranny are you going to be using? |
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af2 Member

Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Posts: 5258 Location: grassvalley, ca 62454.74 points
1933 Willys Coupe
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Posted: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Cam Suggestions: |
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| jeep_406 wrote: |
We were going to use a 350/350 hydraulic cam in it but when I degreed the cam it's much less than that.
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You degreed it with the Hydro lifter.
Degree it with a solid lifter and you will see a real #
Good luck with it Gene. |
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jeep_406 Member

Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 1621 Location: Tewksbury, Mass 01876 51773.50 points
1972 Chevrolet Nova
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:55 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the responses. With the Holiday weekend I haven't had time to do anything. I'll get back to it on Tuesday or Wednesday. One of the problems I'm running into is that the owner had a real hard on for the dual quad set-up even if it slows the car down. He loves the look. I haven't done any work on the heads yet. They're stock 1.94/1.50 open chamber heads. Don't think they flow much at all. I suppose I should flow them before I start. He doesn't want to put any money in this engine.
This engine may end up in an S-10 pick-up I've worked on with him. The S-10 would end up being a street/strip toy that would most likely be a high 12 second piece. There's a 418 SBC in it now that puts out an estimated 625-650 HP. I'm figuring that will end up in the Nostalgia dragster eventually.
Don't know if anyone read about this 418. It had 2 heads with different cc's had to cut a bunch off one to get them even. There were other issues but that was the biggest thing. Who puts an engine together like that!!
Adam, I checked out the cam with a solid flat tappet. |
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af2 Member

Joined: 01 Sep 2003 Posts: 5258 Location: grassvalley, ca 62454.74 points
1933 Willys Coupe
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| How far off was the cam? |
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Knarley Darley Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 1149
536969.38 points
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| I am running a 230/230 @ .050 on a 108 with .500 lift in a 383, and that is a great running small block. It is a hydraulic flat tappet, and it has a nice thumpy idle, pulls good to about 6000. Has great street manners with the converter 400 rpm looser than stock. The car even has working air cond. |
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Skunkworkx Member

Joined: 02 Sep 2007 Posts: 338 Location: Harford Co. Maryland 9887.26 points
1968 Chevrolet Camaro
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Posted: Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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280H in my 406 was great with stock heads and gears all the way to aftermarket 200cc heads, 4.10's, and 4500 stall
230@.050 I/E 110 LSA
Nice choppy note too. _________________ 68 Camaro (LSx time)
AKA:RedЯum |
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SMOKEmUP PostMaster

Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 2960
58607.18 points
1979 Chevrolet Camaro
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Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 12:25 am Post subject: |
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I'd pick a cam based on the DCR. _________________
| 10sec.et wrote: | | what exactly are you having trouble with ? |
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Knarley Darley Member
Joined: 22 Apr 2004 Posts: 1149
536969.38 points
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:13 am Post subject: |
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| Smoke please elaborate. |
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SMOKEmUP PostMaster

Joined: 30 May 2002 Posts: 2960
58607.18 points
1979 Chevrolet Camaro
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Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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I just put some random numbers in the DCR calculator for a SBC (see below). For iron heads like on this one I'd target a DCR of 8:1, assuming a tight quench and decent chamber design. Based on the output below I'd pick a cam with an IVC closing point of around 60 degrees.
For this type head I'd go with a split design with more exhaust, at least 6 degrees more than the intake.
Lift wise, ideally you have flow numbers and match the cam lift to at or near cylinder head flow peak.
Lobe separation:
* 104 - 106 for carbureted non street car.
* 108 - 110 for carbureted street car.
* 112 - 114 for fuel injection.
Based on the above and doing a quick search on the cams DB here. I found a comp cams CS XE268H-10 with 224/230 duration @ 0.05.
| Code: |
You Entered:
Bore 4.03 (inches)
Stroke 3.48 (inches)
Rod Length 5.7 (inches)
Cyl. Head Vol. 68 (cc)
Deck Height 0.005 (inches)
Head Gasket Bore 4.166 (inches)
Head Gasket Thickness 0.039 (inches)
Piston to Cyl. Wall Clearance 0.003 (inches)
Top Ring Land Height 0.25 (inches)
Piston Dome Vol. -6.2 (cc)
Compression Ratio:
9.659 : 1
Displacement:
355.1(ci), 5.8 (liters)
Bore / Stroke Ratio:
1.158 : 1
Rod / Stroke Ratio:
1.638 : 1
IVC (° ABDC) Dynamic Stroke (inches) DCR
40 3.184 8.922 : 1
41 3.169 8.884 : 1
42 3.153 8.846 : 1
43 3.137 8.807 : 1
44 3.121 8.767 : 1
45 3.105 8.725 : 1
46 3.088 8.683 : 1
47 3.071 8.64 : 1
48 3.053 8.596 : 1
49 3.035 8.552 : 1
50 3.016 8.506 : 1
51 2.998 8.459 : 1
52 2.979 8.412 : 1
53 2.959 8.363 : 1
54 2.939 8.314 : 1
55 2.919 8.263 : 1
56 2.899 8.212 : 1
57 2.878 8.16 : 1
58 2.856 8.107 : 1
59 2.835 8.054 : 1
60 2.813 7.999 : 1
61 2.79 7.943 : 1
62 2.768 7.887 : 1
63 2.745 7.83 : 1
64 2.722 7.772 : 1
65 2.698 7.713 : 1
66 2.674 7.653 : 1
67 2.65 7.593 : 1
68 2.625 7.531 : 1
69 2.6 7.469 : 1
70 2.575 7.406 : 1
71 2.549 7.343 : 1
72 2.523 7.278 : 1
73 2.497 7.213 : 1
74 2.471 7.147 : 1
75 2.444 7.081 : 1 |
My 2 cents. _________________
| 10sec.et wrote: | | what exactly are you having trouble with ? |
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