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Blow through 366T Big Block ?
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:43 am    Post subject: Blow through 366T Big Block ? Reply with quote

Big block Chevs are very rare in Indonesia , I found one in a 1978 C65 Chev which is no longer used at one of the airports I work at (1,300 miles total mileage) and I'm trying to buy the engine and trans (5 speed manual) out of it.

This engine would be perfect for my Jeep J20 pick up project , the Jeep is being built as my workshop truck and will be used to haul a 40 ft long aircraft recovery trailer.

This engine is a 366 tall block (I was hoping 427 or 454) but good enough for what I want , I don't need high speed , rpm , I need lots of torque.

I was wondering how suitable this engine is for turbocharging in a blow through configuration by building an airbox and modifying the holley 4 barrell carb (I've read the other posts here on holley carb mods for blow through) ? Very mild boost 8 to 10 psi .

I have a Garrett TK-0659 aircraft turbo from a Lycoming TVO-435 (Bell 47 heli) aircraft engine , in its original installation this turbo provides approx 8 psi of boost on a 435 cu in engine at 3,200 rpm , I'm not really fussed about a bit of turbo lag . The turbo is a single not split intake.

I want to basically do a junkyard build up on this , keep the engine as stock as possible and add a mild turbo . Would you change the cam or just use the stock cam for turbocharging ?

Thoughts ?

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Blue73bird
Enthusiast | Posts: 373 | Joined: 11/99 Posted: 01/31/06
08:30 PM
It is a bastard engine,but they can be fun to tinker with.From a real perfromance standpoint to 366 is a dud.There are a few things I have played with over the years on these engines,but I wouldnt lay out any serious cash on one,and I wouldnt tear apart an otherwise good car to swap on into it,but I do know of one very nice and kind of fast 56 chevy that has one under the hood.

They do look like bigblocks,so that makes them cool,but they dont run much better then a smog 350,but they do have one overwhelmingly redeeming factor.THEY ARE INDESTRUCTABLE!!!Here are some examples of how they can be used.

The 56 chevy was built by my friend who got a good running low miles school bus motor and souped it up.He added a passenger car pan to it,stabbed a cam in it,and swapped on some open chamber oval port heads{tpo bring the compression down to about 6:1].He then bolted a Megablower to it using a tall deck rectangular intake to make it work.With the pullies that supposedly made about 3 psi of boost on a 454,this thing made about 7 psi,and ran low 12's in a 3600# car.Thats not that impressive,but where else can you get a shortblock that will handle a healty dose of blower and live forever{he built it over 10 years ago} for under 500 bucks.Best of all,at the cruise nights he tells everybody that it is a blown 500 inch bigblock.

In the ghetto,they make great street race motors.The blocks are almost totally indestructable,the cranks are plenty strong as are the rods,and the head gaskets seal better then a 454 because the bores are smaller and the decks are thicker.The pistons love nitrous because they are about 3 inches thick and have 3 compresion rings on each one.Even with a 500hp fogger jetted to kill you can burn a half inch off the pisons and never know it because the remaining rings still seal.In the ghetto a cheap combo is to put a cam kit in one of these engines with a single plane intake with spacers,and a 300hp plate system,and the result is a dead sounding 8:1 engine that will run 11's in a camaro or G body car and not sound any more radical then the stock 305 that came out of the car.Best of all they last entire seasons with massive nitrous hammerings.For a few hunder bucks how can you go wrong?After it gives up you go to the junkyard and buy another one fr next season.

Like I said,they arent the first choice for your pride and joy unless of course you are like me,and take more pride in being able to throw together a 10 second car in 2 weekends for under 2 grand then you do in owning a nice 9 second car.If thats your kind of fun then the 366 is right for you.



Read more: http://forums.hotrod.com/70/1299662/pit-stop/366-ci-bigblock/index.html#ixzz1TVPrfuKT


I like this post on hotrod.com

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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clay
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
Posts: 3160
Location: South Carolina
316185.05 points


1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would leave the stock cam in. It will make more power and torque with a cam swap but I don't know how available aftermarket stuff is or the cost associated with getting it there. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't take a lot of duration to make incredible power so the stock cam won't kill any hope of making power by a long shot. There are numerous engines making over 1000 h.p. (and probably in the 800 ft. lb. range) with no more that the mid 230's duration at 0.050". The low compression ratio will help if you don't intercool it. What kind of fuel do you have access to? I have run into problems with pump gas changing from summer to winter mixes. I'll look for a link to post that has a pretty good writeup on converting a carb to blow through. I've done some sort of different things to mine and I'll help you with anything I can. Glad to see you back around. You always have some interesting stuff to work on - very different and I like that. Clay
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can buy 95 octane pump gas here , the octane value is real , we've had samples tested in the lab for some Cessna 172s running on auto fuel

A stock 366 with the governor removed should be ok for 5,000 rpm ?

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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clay
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's great on the fuel, at 10 lbs. you shouldn't have any problems without intercooling considering the compression ratio the 366 probably had from the factory. With the stock cam I would bet you wouldn't have to turn it 5000, as my guess is it would be on the way down big time powerwise at that point. I would think it would live at 5000 though, even though it has what I would think is a heavy piston, BBC's have strong rods compared to the SBC stuff I have mainly messed with. Clay
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a photo of the turbo while still mounted on the Lycoming TVO-435 engine , I kept the waste gate , carb and all the components associated with the turbo

I also kept the dry sump pump Smile



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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Chev BB truck engines are strange , there's seems to be little information on them on the internet

I wasn't even aware there was a 366 BB until a month ago , I thought the smallest BB was the 396

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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clay
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Posts: 3160
Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Once you get into truck engines, things can get weird - no doubt. I know Ford had some weird displacements in trucks too. Not sure about the Mopar crowd though. I'm thinking not a lot out there because anymore displacement rules - especially with the availbility of the lower cost (China made) stroker cranks but if you have one and turbo's are in the future - there's power to be made. Clay
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:52 pm    Post subject: Turbo Photos Reply with quote

The exhaust turbine is approx 2.75" dia on the intake which would make it approx 3.25" inside the housing , 11 blades

The impellor (intake) is slightly smaller 2.5" dia so approx 3" inside the housing , it has 8 blades however each blade is a 'double blade' (see photos)

On the housing it has A/R 1.83 cast on it



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Turbine wheel (exhaust)

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IMG01967-20110731-1720.jpg
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Double bladed impellor (intake)

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_________________
Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components


Last edited by JavaJeep-INDONESIA on Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:09 pm    Post subject: More photos Reply with quote
























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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 366 is a very, very small bore engine. Think of it as the 305 of big blocks.

The 366 has a special cam that makes all of the engines power at under 3,600 RPM with a red line of 4,000. It is a very high torque engine camed to act like a small diesel. You can swap the cam out for a regular cam grind cam but the engine has a two gear gear cam drive like the six cylinder does so it rotates backwards from a chain drive cam. So long as you buy a reverse rotation cam shaft you should be fine (there just are not a lot of them listed in most cam books).

You can increase the bore out to 4.125 inch and use 396 pistons (or even run 402 sized pistons by boring it out to 4.155 inches) with a longer rod required to get the piston to the top of the bore.

You can also sick in a longer stroke crank shaft (either the 4.000" 454 crank or a longer stroke aftermarket crank). Just remember that the oil gallery runs along the drivers side oil gallery and this is one time you don't want to find oil by putting a 4.750 inch stroke crank in it. In the old days before aftermarket blocks, they used to make a 632 engine by ruining external tubing to feed oil to the engine so that it cleared the crank swing inside the engine. The heads have very small valves which is appropriate for a small block sized displacement.

It is a four bolt, high nickel content block, filled with a forged steel 5140 alloy steel 3.760 inch stroke crank and the same forged steel rods (that use the small 0.3750 inch rod bolt) that all big blocks use stock. So it can handle the boost you are planning to throw at it.

If you want a high torque engine I would rebuild it stock as it was designed to pull 37,000 pound loaded trailers in a semi. If you are expecting RPM's above 4,000 RPM look to a new cam.

Big Dave
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If you want a high torque engine I would rebuild it stock as it was designed to pull 37,000 pound loaded trailers in a semi


Wow , I didn't realise these engines were pulling heavy loads like that, as usual thanks for the info Dave.

Thanks for the tip on the reverse rotation cam

At the moment this engine is in a C65 truck with a scissor lift and weighs approx 8 tonnes.

The Jeep J20 is being built to haul a 40 ft trailer to use for small to medium sized aircraft recovery , the trailer will probably weigh close to 2 tonnes when built with a 1 to 4 tonne load on average.

Why did Chev build such a small displacement engine for a heavy duty application ? Lots of meat around the cylinders for cooling ? And why 3 compression rings on the pistons ?

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



Here's a photo of the J20 before it was totally stripped down to do a chassis up rebuild

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From what I have seen truck engines are really detuned as far as camshaft and compression ratio. My thinking is they are designed to live at w.o.t. basically their entire life. That kind of pulling builds a lot of heat in the piston and combustion chamber which speeds up the burn rate - hence the lower compression ratio to compensate. As Dave mentioned camshaft specs move the power down in the rpm range because all that weight slinging around can stay together at 3000 rpm but not at 6000 rpm all day - day after day. I'm going to say the turbo you have may be a little on the big side, but all that will do is slow down response. However in your application I don't see that being a big deal at all. Clay
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current engine in the Jeep is a 258 I-6 (headers only mod) and it also doesn't like to go over 4,000 rpm , but it lacks legs on the highway (it's sweet spot is 50 mph) , I currently run 32" tires on the Jeep but want to go to 36" or 38" which will make the 6 cyl even more anemic with stock gears , I figure the V8 will pull the bigger tires with ease and give me a decent 60 to 70 mph cruise (without trailer)
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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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