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Dad-gum Brakes
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coppergmc
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Dad-gum Brakes Reply with quote

First off, I hate working on brakes of any kind. Brake fluid stinks and brake dust is even worse. But, I have to do something with the brakes on my 88 chevy K1500. I know that this isn't a 4X4 site but some of you guys are always right on with the replies that you give and I know that somebody on here knows what's going on.

I have replaced all the the brake components on my truck except for the ABS and proportioning valve. I'm talking rubber lines and everything. I bled the brakes with the system that pressurizes the master cylinder and actually got a lot of air out and the brakes are working a little better but aren't where they should be. I even tried bleeding the brakes the old way and even held the little pin that is sticking out of the proportioning valve. I still don't have decent brakes.

Is there a way to fix the brakes? Maybe and aftermarket proportioning valve and getting rid of the ABS would be best. If you can think of something and maybe even a part number, I would be very appriciative. I have been pulling a 29' camper and am currently hoping that the trailer brakes hold up.
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DR-CUSTOM
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is the problem? Are the brakes not actually applying well or is the brake pedal soft or going close to the floor?
If you have a soft pedal but think that all the air is out of the system you could pinch off the wheels one at a time by the brake hose and apply the brakes and see if the pedal gets better after one, two , three or all four brake have been isolated...
You may have a master cylinder problem or maybe the hydraulics are working properly but the actual friction material is inferior..

Hope this helps,Tod
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DR-CUSTOM wrote:
What is the problem? Are the brakes not actually applying well or is the brake pedal soft or going close to the floor?


i typed up a long post then deleted it. the above questions need to be answered first.

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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SMOKEmUP
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your 88 truck has ABS? Typo?
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coppergmc
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It has ABS on the rear I think. The pedal feels fairly firm. I have almost full pedal. It just doesn't have that newer brake feel. I bench bled the master. Then installed all the brake components that I thought would keep the truck on the road for a while. I bled the whole system the old way and then purchased the motive kit that pressurizes the system. The brakes still felt a little soft. A couple of days later, I drove the truck and the brakes had a firm pedal but the ABS stuff was going crazy. I unplugged it and still have a firm pedal but to get the truck to stop, I have to mash the pedal hard and say "whoa".
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that rear ABS on those is junk. as old as it is, its probably rusted inside. i have bypassed many of them. it wont hurt anything and, assuming it still works, you wouldnt notice any difference in braking unless youre empty on a slippery road and jam on the brakes hard. what brake pads did you put on the front ? were the rotors turned ? i stopped turning rotors years ago unless the brakes were pulsating. the pads will seat in a lot faster if they arent turned. with a poor surface on the rotors and rock hard metallic pads, you will end up with a hard pedal and no stopping power.
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It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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clay
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2011 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking on my S-10 with rear antilock brakes it used the speedometer sensor in the transmission to get wheel speed information. I don't recall seeing any sort of sensors on the rear end or brake drum area - might be different on full size stuff though. Is the speedometer working right? Clay
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard the dump valves can leak causing the problem you are having.

Is the ABS light on?

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DR-CUSTOM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
that rear ABS on those is junk. as old as it is, its probably rusted inside. i have bypassed many of them. it wont hurt anything and, assuming it still works, you wouldnt notice any difference in braking unless youre empty on a slippery road and jam on the brakes hard. what brake pads did you put on the front ? were the rotors turned ? i stopped turning rotors years ago unless the brakes were pulsating. the pads will seat in a lot faster if they arent turned. with a poor surface on the rotors and rock hard metallic pads, you will end up with a hard pedal and no stopping power.

You may be right about ABS unit.. they are pretty much junk on those models. However I do disagree with your thoughts on not machining rotors or drums when replacing pads or shoes. Doing a brake job without machine work will usually cause high heat and glaze the pad or shoe on the "high spots" of the surface that the pad or shoe is being applied to.. I am not saying that the brake job won't "feel" good after doing it your way,but the pads or shoes usually don't last as long and there is usually a lot more brake dust generated by doing it that way. Just an opinion from an experienced automotive technician..
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DR-CUSTOM
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coppergmc wrote:
It has ABS on the rear I think. The pedal feels fairly firm. I have almost full pedal. It just doesn't have that newer brake feel. I bench bled the master. Then installed all the brake components that I thought would keep the truck on the road for a while. I bled the whole system the old way and then purchased the motive kit that pressurizes the system. The brakes still felt a little soft. A couple of days later, I drove the truck and the brakes had a firm pedal but the ABS stuff was going crazy. I unplugged it and still have a firm pedal but to get the truck to stop, I have to mash the pedal hard and say "whoa".

I would still isolate each of the brakes and see if this make the pedal feel more firm..If it dosen't then that rules out pad flex or adjustment issues in the rear drums. This test just helps to pinpoint if the problem is hydraulic or mechanical..
Good luck..
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af2
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting on the pad flex thingy.

I think 10 was talking new rotors and drums as every shop wants to turn them to make them smooooooth!!!!

Enough or I will get in trouble!! Laughing
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

only an idiot would "pad-slap" a car/truck with hotspots, cracks, gouges, or anything else obviously wrong with the rotor surface. however, BMW, Honda, Mercedes and many others recommend NOT turning rotors. if it needs turning, replace it. all youre doing when you turn them is making them thinner and screwing up the surface. ive been doing this for twenty years and when i started following the manufacturers recommendation of NOT turning rotors, my comebacks went to ZERO.
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Haven't turned a rotor in years. If you think about it and price it out replacement is the way to go. I agree with 10sec.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I don't own a brake lathe (my neighbor does), but I agree with 10 sec. If it is scored or heat checked I replace the rotor. The newer pads seem to eat rotors anyway and they are thin enough when I get around to doing a brake job. I just consider it part of doing business.

Big Dave
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coppergmc
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put new rotors, calipers, pads, and rubber lines on the front. The pads were the platinum weaver pads from advance. I took brake cleaner and sprayed the surface of the rotor to clean all the residue off before I installed the rotors. They only have a few miles on them right now.

I just pulled the 383 out of the truck and am in the process of putting a much friendlier 350 in now. My plan was to use a small cam that would help with low end and possibly gas mileage. I also am swapping in a "wake up kit" from transmission center with a better converter. I am even swapping the 3.42 gears out for some 4.11 gears to help things out a little with the 33" tires. Got to get the truck ready for hunting season and would like to pull my 29ft camper to the club around the 1st of October.

When I get the truck off the rack, I will probably pull the abs stuff out and might even go to an aftermarket proportioning valve. I don't think I like the stock valve.
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