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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Houston,Texas
346624.78 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.its all just guessing at this point. i have tried everything and i dont even get the slightes change. that makes me believe that the problem is internal.

BTW Skunkworkx, the collapsing hoses are a good suggestion except on this particular car. we built them out of stainless tubing. didnt want any weird cooling issues Rolling Eyes Head Bang

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2393
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81240.86 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not possible that there is a water pump rotation issue? Reverse rotation would screw you for sure. Not that they made a reverse version for a hemi. That would be a simple fix if it were true. The other thing that might be hard to look into is head gasket coolant holes. If they don't pass coolant well into the head this will overheat it too. I know it was on a dyno cool without issues but just thinking outside the box.
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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Houston,Texas
346624.78 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i took the W/P and housing off today to look for anything clogging any passages. i didnt find anything but the impeller sure looks backwards. it uses the same type of pump thats on the later Dodge engines with the serp belt. according to the engine builder and the numbers cast into the pump, its for a late 60s early 70s engine. still looks backwards though. we have another pump ordered. its supposed to flow better and will give us something to reference.

i got my hands on the dyno sheet and the temp was 148. i bet they dynoed the engine cold every time. the engine builder thinks the radiator is too small and AutoRad thinks the engine compartment is not ventilated well enough and wants us to drive it with the hood off. i think its a combination of both but neither solution is an easy one.

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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
71191.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
i took the W/P and housing off today to look for anything clogging any passages. i didnt find anything but the impeller sure looks backwards. it uses the same type of pump thats on the later Dodge engines with the serp belt. according to the engine builder and the numbers cast into the pump, its for a late 60s early 70s engine. still looks backwards though.

i got my hands on the dyno sheet and the temp was 148.


BACKWARDS? I would start there. How does a motor turn? LOL

140'S GIVES THE BEST hp#

As what Paul and I said about the pump. Laughing
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pump came in today. rotation is correct (whatever direction that is Adam Laughing Poke ). im only left with airflow or radiator.

Adam, what radiator setup are you running on your Willis ? how are you getting the air to flow through the engine compartment ? louvered inner fender panels ?

if it ends up needing a bigger radiator, im thinking of adding a small one in the back between the frame rails. anyone have experience with this ? if it were a race car, i would add the heater cores as Knarley suggested but it has those POS braided heater hoses that look good but wont flow enough coolant to actually cool the engine. those hoses can flow enough coolant to warm the heater core and thats it.

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af2 wrote:
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keith, I wouldn't run my system on the street at all.
Honda Accord radiator is small. The biggest thing that helped though is drilling the holes in the side of the front end.



My Uncle is still building many street rods a year and still is using the frame rails as part of the cooling system. It has worked well.
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Paul P
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do everything you can to duplicate the dyno setup without sacrificing looks. Then again I'm more function not fashion when it comes the machine itself.

Hey I have an idea worth trying. Reduce the pulley size on the water pump to increase the flow.

Another note:
In the Smokey Yunick book....he does not recommend using AN hose (usually too small) for radiator hose applications.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi


Last edited by Paul P on Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:46 am; edited 1 time in total
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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:

Hey I have an idea worth trying. Reduce the pulley size on the water pump to increase the flow.


Yep I was wandering if it had a HP improver pulley???? Rolling Eyes
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
346624.78 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

today we installed a bigger radiator......sort of.....

we have a test engine stand so we flipped the radiator around (aluminum 2-row 18"x21" core) and made some hoses to hook it up while still on the stand in front of the car. even with my bigass fan, the temp never came below 215 idling once it warmed up. bring the rpms up and over 220 it went. theres nothing more external to do. it has an engine problem.

i received a bit more info on the engine today. its a crate engine that went to a machine shop for cam, valvetrain and headwork. the engine shop found worn bearings, a bad oil pump and the wrong rings when they got the engine. once they fixed what they found wrong, they dynoed the engine and sent it back to us. less than an hour of run time in the car, the rear main started puking oil. i changed the seal and found nothing wrong other than it wasnt staggered. it did fine for a while but is now starting to leak again. IMO....... this motor is PHUCKED!!!!!

in the morning im going to pull the oil filter and cut it open. if i find bearing material, this motor is coming out.

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Paul P
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad cast flashing internally? You might be able to fix that if you can see it by busting it out from inside the block. I know that is a complete tare down though....


How much hard block did they put in there?

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Houston,Texas
346624.78 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no hard block but this thing is over 520 cubic inches. who knows how thin the cylinder walls are. im also wondering if theres a chance that the wrong head gaskets were used. i dont know if thats possible on a Hemi but can definitely be a problem on other engines. after what i found out about the "crate motor" i doubt ANYTHING was actually checked other than what our machine shop did. worst part is that this machine shop doesnt really do Mopars. its another Ford/Chevy shop Rolling Eyes .
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
81240.86 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is time to take it out and look at it. Head gaskets, Casting issues ect...
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3472
Location: Houston,Texas
346624.78 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, we seem to be making a tiny bit of progress. i got a bit more info on the engine and found out its a 528 Hemi crate motor from Chrysler. i did some research and found out that the very early 528 crate motors were done by Arrow (if i remember correctly). they refused to put the substandard parts in the engines that Chrysler was supplying so Chrysler sent the engines to Cummins to be built where the substandard parts went right along with substandard machine work. guess which version of the 528 we got. currently there are others building these engines (i forget the names) and the quality is supposed to be top notch. our engine did however, go to a reputable shop to go completely through this motor before it went to the dyno. i also found out that there is a machining flaw in the block that causes the rear main seal to leak.

after discussing this issue with our engine builder he seemed to think there may be a lean issue with the carb and late timing. so, i locked the timing and put it at 33 where it was dynoed. i also borrowed a carb off of another engine (454 LSX) and test drove the car. it was a few degrees better and didnt heat up as fast but would still get to 218 on a four mile trip and stay there. wondering if its still lean, i decided to bring my carb to work and try it. the carb that was dynoed on the engine was jetted 71/76 with #31 squirters and 30cc pumps. mine is jetted 80/88 with 35/32 squirters and 50cc pumps. i figured that should eliminate any lean concerns.

we test drove the car and made almost 10 miles with temp never getting past 210. at that point we decided to lean on it a bit and see what the temp did. we turned around and gave it a go. first gear, of course, it goes sideways. so, short shifted and it hooks.... throttle immediately to the floor and ......HOOOLLLEEEE SHHHEEEEEEEET !!!!!!!!!!!!! that damn Hemi starts twisting the shyte out of the car. we were almost to 100 before shifting to third and had to shut it down because it looked like it was going to pop out the windshield. so much for that high dollar, professional built, dyno tuned, race carb that was on the engine Rolling Eyes . unfortunately, after that, the temp came up and stayed at 218 Head Bang . was fun while it lasted though Very Happy . the saga continues.................

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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
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1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
air flow could be an issue. That nose area was fairly small and it may be slicing through the air instead of building pressure in front of the radiator the way a fenderless car dose with a six foot wide by three foot tall radiator core support to act as an air dam. Any chance of putting a chin spoiler on it to force more air to pile up in front of the car?


I agree with Dave , sounds like an air flow issue , I had enormous problems keeping my Jeeps cool in the Indonesian jungle (low speed high rpm due to mud) and I tried bigger radiators , oil coolers etc which helped slow the overheating but didn't cure it.

Then after almost overheating and then vapor locking I noticed everything (fuel lines, brackets, carburetor etc) under the hood was so hot you couldn't hold your hand on it , in the end I drilled 10 x 2" dia holes in the back of the hood to let the air out of the engine bay , water temps dropped 30 deg and the problem was solved.

I suggest an easy way to test if its an airflow problem is to test drive the car with the engine hood removed and see if that solves the problem

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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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JavaJeep-INDONESIA
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Joined: 27 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Jakarta , Java , Indonesia
2665.12 points


1944 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My latest buildup (Jeep J20 pick which will be big block powered) has a 6 core radiator from an aircraft ground power unit , nothing worse than having a car or truck which is on the verge of overheating
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Tony Gurney
Java, Indonesia

1944/46 MB/CJ2a FrankenJeep F-134 waterproofed HS6 SU carb MSD5 ignition, T90 + Warn overdrive, D18, D25 Lock Right , D44 Detroit Locker , 32"x15" Simex Extreme Trekkers , Warn 8274, full jungle fit out

Now getting a 350 Chev and a unique suspension set up using Boeing 727 undercarriage components
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