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got another weird one, did i mention this site is the best!

 
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disturbthepeace1
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Joined: 14 Jun 2003
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1965 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:21 am    Post subject: got another weird one, did i mention this site is the best! Reply with quote

hey guys,

I need your .02, I have a SBC in a elco in the shop that I'm trying to tune. The issue that Im having is that it only likes to run if it has at least 55+ degrees of timing Shocked and runs best at 60ish Confused

has anyone come across this before? could the cam gear be off a tooth?

I degreed the pulley to make sure that its not off and the balancer looks fresh. the motor looks like it might have been rebuilt with the last couple of years and has a big milodon pan, a set of topline alum heads, HEI dizzy, RPM air gap intake and a 3310 holley carb.....

any input would be great, but......


I have another issue with the motor, It has a crankcase pressure issue. if the motor gets past 4500rpm it builds enough pressure to pop the dipstick out and make a big mess. I think this could be solved with a standard volume pump or maybe some lighter oil but I wanna nail down this timing issue first


you guys rock as always

Joe

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Paul P
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You likely have a 305 balancer that was marked for the timing tab located at 12:00 on the cover. If you are using a timing tab from a regular early small block at 2:00 that would explain it.
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SMOKEmUP
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a balancer slip on me before. Check to see if TDC on the balancer matches true TDC.
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disturbthepeace1
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1965 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SMOKEmUP wrote:
I had a balancer slip on me before. Check to see if TDC on the balancer matches true TDC.


I degreed the balancer using a piston stop in the number 1 hole. Rotate forward and mark the balancer, then rotate backwards and mark. Marked the balancer between the marks and found it only off a couple degrees. Confused


I have seen this once before on a VW motor but never addressed the issue. Any other ideas???

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af2
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With those heads you should be at 36*. The pressure that is blowing the dip stick has nothing to do with oil weight or pump.
It is blowby.

I would do a compression test then go from there. Super low compression or a retarded cam will make the thing want more timing.

Make sure the timing light is correct also.
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disturbthepeace1
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1965 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
With those heads you should be at 36*. The pressure that is blowing the dip stick has nothing to do with oil weight or pump.
It is blowby.

I would do a compression test then go from there. Super low compression or a retarded cam will make the thing want more timing.

Make sure the timing light is correct also.


I figured out the dipstick issue. The builder had used a driver side dipstick on a passenger side block by cutting back the tube so that it was only fitted down a 1/8 into the block. I install the correct one and problem solved. I had done a comp check and she is cranking 180psi cold.

Anyone think cam timing could cause screwing ignition timing??

I used the same timing light on another car to verify that it works.

Joe Confused

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clay
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is the timing problem why you have it in your shop or has it always needed this timing setting? I think you should be able to do a quick check on the timing chain by comparing the heights of the pushrods. If you put #1 on TDC during valve overlap, both pushrods should be the same height and a straight edge layed on top of them should be parallel to the valve cover rail. There is an amount of difference per degree of advance or retard but if you are a tooth off it should be obvious. You might want to check it then swap pushrods just to make sure there aren't any length differences that could give you a bad result. Clay
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe you are timed on another cylinder other than #1? Just a thought.
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squeeezer
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
You likely have a 305 balancer that was marked for the timing tab located at 12:00 on the cover. If you are using a timing tab from a regular early small block at 2:00 that would explain it.



i agree with this theory since ive done it myself in the distant past

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disturbthepeace1
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 2:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

squeeezer wrote:
Paul P wrote:
You likely have a 305 balancer that was marked for the timing tab located at 12:00 on the cover. If you are using a timing tab from a regular early small block at 2:00 that would explain it.



i agree with this theory since ive done it myself in the distant past



But i did degree the balancer and found true TDC and believe it or not this thing runs best at 60+ total degrees of timing. It does lack power IMO... I think that maybe the builder tried to play with the cam timing and f'd up lining up the marks. But we will see if the owner wants to pay me to take off the cover to straighten it all out.

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Skunkworkx
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too big a cam for the compression ? Seen a few times Smile
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af2
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PostPosted: Sun May 29, 2011 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Skunkworkx wrote:
Too big a cam for the compression ? Seen a few times Smile


That was my thought untill Joe said it had 185# cranking.

If you had a cam card you could degree it without pulling the front off the engine to see if it is retarded.

You said the thing was lazy and I would suspect retarded cam/ late exhaust, needing more timing.
I can't think of any other reason. smoking
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disturbthepeace1
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1965 Volkswagen Beetle

PostPosted: Mon May 30, 2011 12:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
Skunkworkx wrote:
Too big a cam for the compression ? Seen a few times Smile


That was my thought untill Joe said it had 185# cranking.

If you had a cam card you could degree it without pulling the front off the engine to see if it is retarded.

You said the thing was lazy and I would suspect retarded cam/ late exhaust, needing more timing.
I can't think of any other reason. smoking


It's kinda of a mystery, but IMO it sounds like a XE grind for sure and my money is that it's a 268. It has a stock torque converter and the motor isn't really asking for much stall. I don't think it has a large cam but it does have a cam for sure.

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