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noob cam/lifter question?
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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:36 am    Post subject: noob cam/lifter question? Reply with quote

I have a 68 327 i'm trying to educate myself on, and hopefully rebuild. I've been trying to learn about cams and lifters. I guess my question is, if I buy a hydraulic flat tappet cam, can I reuse the stock lifters? Is there a page somewhere that explains all the types and the rules with using them together? Also I just bought some 906 vortec heads from the junkyard. How am I gonna figure out what size pushrods to use? The stock 327 ones, and the ones I got from the Vortec block are very different in size. I hope you don't think i'm stupid, I just want to learn about this shit. Thanks...
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 2:02 am    Post subject: Re: noob cam/lifter question? Reply with quote

bigtizzles wrote:
I have a 68 327 i'm trying to educate myself on, and hopefully rebuild. I've been trying to learn about cams and lifters. I guess my question is, if I buy a hydraulic flat tappet cam, can I reuse the stock lifters? Is there a page somewhere that explains all the types and the rules with using them together? Also I just bought some 906 vortec heads from the junkyard. How am I gonna figure out what size pushrods to use? The stock 327 ones, and the ones I got from the Vortec block are very different in size. I hope you don't think i'm stupid, I just want to learn about this shit. Thanks...


no, you can not reuse old lifters with a new cam nor can you swap positions on the cam with the lifters if its a flat tappet type. the lobe and lifter establish a wear pattern and can not be mixed up. they are married once the cam has been broke in. what do you mean "pushrod size" ? are you referring to length or diamiter ? if its diamiter, they are most likely 5/16.

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clay
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

X2 on 10sec.et with reusing lifters. Pushrods should all be 5/16" diameter but the Vortec's will most likely be shorter because they are a hydraulic roller application and the lifter is taller so the pushrod gets shorter to have the same overall length. Pushrods are usually one of the last things I buy because you need to have the cam, lifters, heads, and rocker arms at least mocked up to determine length. Base circles are different on cams, blocks may have been decked, heads may have been surfaced, and rocker arms may be slightly different. I think the Vortecs have the setup that guides the rocker by the valve stem, so you will have to get that style of rocker arm when you buy unless you are reusing the factory rockers. If you pick a fairly mild hydraulic flat tappet (or whatever style cam the factory used in your particular engine) most likely you can use factory length pushrods. Clay
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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 1:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I was referring to the length. The vortec rods are shorter, now I know why. So I'm probably gonna go with a flat tappet cam, so I will need hydraulic flat tappet lifters? Is that the "type" i'm gonna need? So what exactly needs machined on the valve guide to achieve more lift on the vortecs? I heard you can do some things yourself to get similar results, like grinding the top of the guide or buying beehive springs. Cant seem to find a good diy article.
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squeeezer
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

use the 327 pushrods
i assume you will use the stock self aligning vortec rockers

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squeeezer
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bigtizzles wrote:
Yeah, I was referring to the length. The vortec rods are shorter, now I know why. So I'm probably gonna go with a flat tappet cam, so I will need hydraulic flat tappet lifters? Is that the "type" i'm gonna need? So what exactly needs machined on the valve guide to achieve more lift on the vortecs? I heard you can do some things yourself to get similar results, like grinding the top of the guide or buying beehive springs. Cant seem to find a good diy article.







there are some tools you will need to buy
if you dont see yourself doing this alot pay someone to do it for you not expensive at all

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok thanks. I think my dad has a set of mics, I borrowed all the other shit from autozone when I need it. Pain in the ass, but its free!!
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clay
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2010 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
So what exactly needs machined on the valve guide to achieve more lift on the vortecs?

From what I understand, the retainer actually hits the stem seal. The head needs to be machined in that area to put a seal in a lower location. I'll be able to give some more specifics in a few weeks because my cousin wants to swap the cam in the Vortec I did for him a few years back. Clay

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squeeezer
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

height of valve guide
od of valve guide
and if needed od of spring pocket

i think it may be like a $40 process

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pushrods I got with the 327 were in a bag all mixed up, is this a problem? I will keep all the other stuff in order when I disassemble.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mixing push rods isn't an issue.

If you use the stock Vortec springs and the stock self guided rocker arms you can run a flat tappet cam with lift at the valve below 0.460" inch (which includes a lot of the cam grinds on the page).

If you feel you can not live without a bottom of the page cam; have the heads professionally cut (the tool to cut the heads wears out on every pair of heads so you always end up buying a new tool to cut the spring pockets and valve guides and reduce the valve guide stem height). By cutting the head you are obligating yourself to buy a new set of valve springs (always a good idea anyway).

I do not recommend using a flat tappet cam at all anymore; because motor oil is no longer formulated to let a flat tappet cam live.

The last flat tappet left the factory nearly thirty years ago now, and there are minerals in motor oil that pollute the catalytic converter of new cars that all have roller tappets. So the oil industry removed all of the Zinc and Phosphorus metal from motor oil that prevented a flat tappet cam from wearing out rapidly. Of course you can add those metals back into the motor oil with a $30 bottle of oil additive but you will rapidly reach the cost of a set of roller tappets at $30 an oil change and eventually exceed it. So it is actually cheaper to buy a roller tappet cam to start with so you can use regular motor oil.

Big Dave
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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinkin about gettin a set of those beehive springs from comp cams, they bolt right in and take the lift up to .550, and then using a cam like the summit 1107. I might be way off, but I'm still trying to learn about all this stuff.
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clay
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't use that camshaft if you are going to build a naturally aspirated 327. If you plan a blower, sure, but it's not a very good choice for naturally apirated. Are you planning to run flat top pistons? Getting a decent idea of compression ratio is one of the first pieces of the puzzle to camshaft selection. Displacement, intended useage, power adder such as nitrous, etc., etc. are some of the others. You are going to use the Vortec heads though, right? Clay
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Comp beehive springs have not been made by PAC for the last few years.

I would get the PAC springs if it were me. Much better Quality.
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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

so the summit 1105 would be a better cam, even though I would have room for a much larger cam? I know its not good to over cam an engine. I want to put this motor in a late 70's malibu, 70's camero, or possibly an S-10. Just for street use, with the occasional drag race on the weekend just for fun. NOS is a possibility. Probably don't have the funds anytime soon to boost it. I was thinking flat top pistons, but my options are open. I havn't purchaced any parts. Like to get close to 10:1 compression. Maybe for my use, I really dont need those springs. What do ya think??
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