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Free 327, need ideas???
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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:45 am    Post subject: Free 327, need ideas??? Reply with quote

I got a free 327 off my buddy. Its block casting # is 3914678, Heads # is 3911032 suffix code on front of motor is YD. It has an old Holley 4160 part # 1850-2. I believe it is a large journal 2 bolt main, that came out of a truck and was mated to a powerglide trans. It needs bored because one of the combustion chambers has a little bit of rust at the top cause the idiot left the heads off and put it in his carport, tiny bit of pitting. I was gonna buy an old truck and put it in, but now i'm just gonna build the motor, and worry about a car later. I've never built a motor before. I would like to reuse the heads and carb if possible. The motor was supposedly running when it was pulled, so at least i'd like to reuse the crank and rods. What are some recommendations on building this thing to make the most out of what I have. I'm in the Air Force and have a young family, so I'm on somewhat of a budget. Any suggestions would help. Thanks guys!!!
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

what exactly IS your budget ? stock long block rebuilds can be done for around $800-$1000. then you have to either rebuild the carb yourself or pay someone else to do it. that can be a couple hundred bucks. then theres all the small stuff that nickel and dimes you to death like water pump, fuel pump, hoses, clamps, fluids.......

oh, welcome to SMOKEmUP and thanks for serving Cool Cheers

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that seems kinda steep. I just need the machine work done I can do the assembly, and rebuild the carb for 25 bucks. I was asking advice on if this particular head and block respond better to certain things, especially the heads, cause I don't think they are very desirable. My budget is up in the air, maybe 1500? I wanna do like one of those car craft extream budget builds they do all the time. I wanna know if anyone has experience with these particular casting numbers, their weak and strong points. I am going with the assumption that most of these parts can be reused. Where can I cut corners? What would be in my best interest to replace?
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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would suggest a set of vortecs and clean them up you will be $$$$$$$$$$ ahead

im sure your valve seats only like lead fuel

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af2
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Free 327, need ideas??? Reply with quote

[quote="bigtizzles"]I got a free 327 off my buddy.quote]

fREE to me has ended up with waaaay more $ than I wanted to spend.

Just food for thought! Laughing

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 2:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i know what your sayin'. What all vehicles came with the Vortec heads, that might be laying around the junk yard? What could I do to make my heads worth a damn until maybe I upgrade later? What would you guys suggest I do to the low end? Flat top or domed pistons? Should the crank and rods be reused if they are in good shape? How about cams if I stay with the stock heads?
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

if it were mine, i would first have the block and heads checked for cracks. last "free" engine i had had a crack in the block. you said the engine was sitting with the heads off. why were the heads off ?

as far as rebuilding (knowing now what i didnt know then) throw away all the rod and main bolts. get some ARP fasteners. dont have to be studs but get high quality bolts. recondition all the rods and have the rotating assembly balanced. you should be able to just have the crank turned. get a set of forged pistons and good rings. nothing exotic but not parts store house brand junk either. get a good oil pump. no need for a high volume high pressure pump just a good one. again, no house brand junk. for heads and cam, i cant really answer that since im not really a Chevy guy but the others that are can help. whatever heads you end up with will definitely need a valve job and springs. probably need guides too. dont knurl them replace them. i know i have left out a bunch but this is a start.

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The heads were off cause my buddy started tearing it down and thats all the further he got. He was gonna put it in an old 260Z but apparently lost interest and his wife was bitching about the motor sitting around. He got it from a street rod shop in Amarillo for like 150 bucks. I found some vortec reconditioned heads for 150 bucks, does that sound right? Sounds a little cheap to me. I still would like to reuse the heads unless this vortec deal is legit. What should the casting numbers be on a desirable pair? Also I was wondering what kind of crank this motor should have, forged or steel? Something else that would be neat is to msaybe set this motor up for boost. I know that would probably be expensive, huh? I have some turbo experience when I was young in the Honda phase...lol
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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

last 3 digits in the casting numbers on vortec heads are 062 and 906
any other factory center bolt valve coverd heads you dont want

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, i'll check the local junkyard maybe tomorrow. What could I do to the heads I have to get them up to par with the vortec?
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome to the site bigtizzles!

Like 10sec.et stated above just rebuilding your short block with quality parts is going to cost you. Todays pump gas requires that you lower your static compression from 10.0:1 down to 8.5:1 to run regular; that is a new set of flat top pistons. Unleaded fuel requires hardened valve seats and the Vortec heads found on 1996-'04 pick-up trucks are the best heads GM ever cast in terms of flow and efficiency.

They are easily identified by the saw tooth pattern on one end.



Please note that you have to buy a new intake manifold to use these heads as they have a raised intake port for better breathing and they require a different bolt pattern to prevent you from trying to use the old style intake manifold on these heads. They are a center bolt valve cover for better sealing and fewer oil leaks; so you will need the valve covers or after market ones like this guy bought. The heads do not use guide plates for the push rods. Instead the stamped steel rockers have a flat "U" shaped channels that captures the top of the valve stem to hold the rockers centered on the valves. So be sure the balls and rockers and nuts come with those rebuilt heads, or you will end up buying self guided roller rockers. Finally to control valve harmonics in an engine that is fully computer controlled (so there is no chance of it ever over reving) the factory installed Bee-Hive valve springs which limit your cam lift to 0.480" maximum (which is ok because only bottom of the page cams with unstreetable durations have more lift than that).

I would suggest that your first purchase be a couple of $20 books written by a man with an engineering degree who has worked for MOPAR, FORD and GM as an engineer and adviser for the past forty five years. Specifically the two in a series of how to books written by David Vizzard entitled "How to Build and Modify Chevrolet Small-Block V-8 Cylinder Heads " and "How to Build Max Performance Chevy Small Blocks on a Budget". These two books can save you hundreds of dollars.

Big Dave
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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

if you find a vortec truck motor it will have hyper pistons in it from the factory (made by Mahle) they are a dish w/ 4 notch pistons that are 9.1 comp ratio (i nevver measured this yet a cheap steel shim head gasket can save you $$$$ from having to 0 deck the block and you can net a 9.8 to 1 comp ratio (guessing there)

the rods that are in these truck motors are resizeable (not a crack cap)
dont quote me on this but i THINK they are a pm rod my machinist told me they are not
where i am confused is there are pm rods with crack caps and some with machined caps,however vortec motors have no stamped numbers on them

stock cranks are nod iron and visard states they are good to 425 hp for what that is worth


the bottom line is if you get a running vortec motor for $200 and re ring and re bearing it you have about the best bang for the buck

wayyyyyyyy better "budget" than re building your 327
im sure there are some old timmers out there willing to give you some $$$$ for your 327....put it towards a vortec runner

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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

by the way i am rebuilding one of these motors for re sale ill let ya know as time goes on what it costs real world

block is at the machine shop as we speak
and i am just cleaning parts for now

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squeeezer
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Big Dave"]
They are easily identified by the saw tooth pattern on one end.






this is a good illustration
actually vortec heads have the saw tooth pattern on both ends like the head on the left
the head on the right is also a vortec head

and this is the only confusing part of the "going strictly by the casting" debate

I too have seen this combo on engines 1 saw tooth and one bump head

in my personal expierience as a mechanic with taking these heads or engines apart
saw tooth=062 casting
bump=906 casting

its a matter of fact the core motor im working on has saw tooth (on both sides) 062 heads
the reman motor i replaced it with did have bump heads or 906 castings on them

i have never verified this, but if you need to choose between the 2 heads the 062 is supposedly better
the 906 head has a thicker exhaust seat for h.d. apps
dont get me wrong they are both great heads

so with that said i would guess with what i have seen, if you took a motor apart like the one in the pic. it would have one of each casting #

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bigtizzles
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the info. I will put it to good use. Right now i'm trying to clean up and rebuild this carb. Its been kind of a pain. I hope it works when i'm done. lol...
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