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It's ALIVE - again......
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 1:10 pm    Post subject: It's ALIVE - again...... Reply with quote

Finally got it together. Put it on the break in stand and ran it for about 20 minutes so far and everything looks good for now. I haven't cut the filter open yet, but I will before I put it in the car. Here is a picture of the oil drainback on the turbo's and so far they look really good. While it's running they are maybe 1/2 full when the oil is cold and when the oil gets up to temp, they run maybe 1/3 full or a little less. The original setup used 1/2" o.d. tubing that had a little less than 7/16" i.d. The current setup used 3/4" o.d. tube with a 5/8" i.d.

Here is a pic on the stand. I took a video of it running but it doesn't really sound that good. It has almost a completely smooth idle - if it makes good power it's going to be a real sleeper.

Here are the things I learned on this build. 1. Summit's "Bracket Racing" s.f.i. harmonic balancers aren't really that good of a piece. I have had mine for 2 years but it has probably 1500 - 2000 miles at the most on it and maybe 60 - 80 1/8 mile passes and about 4 1/4 mile passes. You can grab the outer ring and turn it back and forth about 4* by hand. So it's an ATI unit from here on out. 2. Felpro MLS head gaskets have a little trick. They don't go far enough up the deck surface to go to the junction of the head and intake. If you just put the intake on like normal there would be 4 openings left about 3/16" long and the thickness of the head gasket at each corner which would pour oil. 3. Rev kits are like 10sec.et mentioned earlier - kit just means it arrived in the same box. They are a pain to install. Some of it was due to parts not being made right and the rest of it was just what it takes to install a rev kit I think. I'll try to put some mufflers on it and take another video and see if it sounds any better. Later, Clay.

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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glad to hear it's back together, looks good. What type of hose is the return line?

What cam did you put it?

Any provisions for a pressure sensor in the exhaust manifold?

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What type of hose is the return line?

It's some old air line from work. It's not long term oil resistant but it was something clear that I can see what is happening with any drainback issues. Most likely I will put some sort of hydraulic hose in for the final install.
Quote:
What cam did you put it?

It is a solid roller with 238* in. and ex. at 0.050" - 0.592" lift with a 1.6 rocker on a 115* seperation installed 2* retarded. I'm using Howards Pro-Lite lifters with hippo. Currently I have springs that have 210 seat and 490 over the nose but I have a little bit lighter set on the way to take some load off to compensate for the rev kit pressure and I really don't think it's going to go much over 6500.
Quote:
Any provisions for a pressure sensor in the exhaust manifold?

Not yet, but absolutely before it goes back into the car. Then we can all see how I did on cam selection Laughing . Clay

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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks good Clay!! Cool

Remember the rev kit springs are not a reason to lighter on the valve springs. They are isolated at valve lash and are there to keep the roller on the cam.(hope that made sense)

That cam should have good low end on the 377" getting the turbos spooling quick.

It will be interesting to see if the left side drains faster than the right side turbo.
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William Jones
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1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Mon Aug 23, 2010 9:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice work Clay glad to hear its up and running again looks good to.

Bam

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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That thing would run pretty good NA let alone with the twins. I agree that it will make good torque, and should have very little if any lag. I also concur that the spring pressure should be higher rather than lower, as you want a stable valve train, and you are running quite a bit of lift for the short duration which makes the ramp of the cam a bit more radical(steep) You dont want the rev kit to suck the pushrod out from under the rocker arm when the valve closes. Hey just a thought, can we try that engine in my car? LOL
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is my argument on the lighter springs (they aren't much lighter by the way). On the flat tappet setup I ran 120 seat and 325 over the nose with 1.6 / 1.5 rockers and turned to 7500 at 20 lbs. boost with no issues. I still have the same valve, same retainer, same pushrod, same rocker arm, and with running the Pro Lite roller lifters they even weigh almost the same as the mechanical flat tappets (186g flat tappet pair vs. 193g for roller pair). Now granted I can see with the more agressive cam profile (after all that's what a roller is about) I do need more spring, I just don't think I need 100# more on the seat and 275# more over the nose. I talked to Howards tech line and they are pretty helpful. He shot down my first pick as it was too light and suggested 175# seat (1.950) and 440# open (1.250) instead of the 200# and 510 I have now. It's still listed as a "roller" spring and should be fine at the planned 6500 redline. If it wants to go more, I'll probably put the heavier ones back on. I really just need a Spintron, does anybody have one I can borrow Very Happy . Just trying to do some small changes to hopefully help with life on the street which means it'll probably last 150 miles. I'll see what video sounds like with mufflers on. Clay
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run Lunati 100 gram solid rollers with their premium PACaloy springs in my 406 (74725 Voodoo Pacaloy Double Valve Spring). My spring pressure is set up at 314 pounds closed at 1.900" installed height and 668 open with 1.350" (coil bind isn't an issue with 0.600" of clearance available) and it uses a 3/8th inch diameter chromemoly push rod pushing stainless steel roller rockers. I have no issues on the street so far and the lash stays constant with spring pressure still holding up.

My only concern with spring pressures like this on the street is in hammering the seats of the aluminum heads. It work hardens the aluminum under the seat and might allow the seats to fall out (which has happened to me on two other BC engines running solid roller springs) This is about the only thing that will force me to run a lighter spring. Otherwise the springs are working great for a rev happy freak like me. I also only run high DZZP oil with an additive to save parts Like cam to roller wear even though the cam is a steel billet grind).

Big Dave
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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The valve seats wont be a problem as long as the valve lash isnt excessive. I always run mine on the tight side of good so it does not pound the valve train. What will pound the crap out of the seat, is the lifter leaving the lobe and slamming the valve onto the seat, it also bends pushrods, and breaks lifters. Trust me, more spring pressure is your friend, also they are going to sack out considerably within the first 50 miles, or 10 passes, so start a bit higher than you want to be to allow for this. One other theory I have completely jumping subjects here, is solid motor mounts, especially on stock blocks. Is it possible that the damage to your engine was caused by cylinder wall distortion from a concentrated external force (solid mount) I know its thin, but....... Maybe a torque strap with a turn buckle? Motor plate in the front would be even better.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
On the flat tappet setup I ran 120 seat and 325 over the nose with 1.6 / 1.5 rockers and turned to 7500 at 20 lbs. boost with no issues.

Now granted I can see with the more agressive cam profile (after all that's what a roller is about) I do need more spring,

I just don't think I need 100# more on the seat and 275# more over the nose.

I talked to Howards tech line and they are pretty helpful. He shot down my first pick as it was too light and suggested 175# seat (1.950) and 440# open (1.250) instead of the 200# and 510 I have now. It's still listed as a "roller" spring and should be fine at the planned 6500 redline.

If it wants to go more, I'll probably put the heavier ones back on.


Clay the last part of that quote is a reason for not going lighter on the springs.

As far as comparing a solid flat to a sollid roller and not thinking it needs 100 more on the seat and 200+ more open you are wrong been on both sides of the fence. (no disrespect intended).

Glad it is back together go have some fun!
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice! Love to see what it runs when it is back in the car.

Ancient Chinese saying - Too much spwing is always better and safer than too wittle....

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

O.k. - I think Karma along with everyone else is trying to tell me something. I started putting the springs on today. I was in a hurry so I just took them out of the box and started putting them on. On about cylinder #3 I thought just for curiosity I'd better check them. I've always had good luck with springs being what they advertised, but these were all over the place. Advertised as 175 at 1.950" installed height but I got anywhere from 135 to 165 at 1.950". Ain't no way I'm putting that on an engine. To verify me hydraulic checker and my methods, I checked several of the AFR springs that were on the heads. They checked 200 at 1.950" within 5# or so which is about the error in my method so I think my tools and methods are fine - just the Howards spring are crap so I'm leaving the stronger one's on and saying the heck with it. Clay
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HOLY CRAP!!!!
How many don't check!!!!
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William Jones
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1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not big on the howards stuff this is along the lines of what I have seen from them.
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Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
68 Falcon 363ci 10.55@126 N/A
95 GT 363ci 11.08@118 N/A
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sucks. I'll have to remember this, Howards is off the list.
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