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Not so good track day....
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 1:31 am    Post subject: Not so good track day.... Reply with quote

Went to our local track Bowman to do some testing with the new boost controller. It looked like it was working just as it should, I just need to figure out what to actually program. However, on the 4th pass it popped about 3/4 track and quit pulling. Shut it off, checked the rear view and saw I was trailing smoke. Heard it start rattling, still had oil pressure and shut it off. Coasted rest of the way to the return road. Popped the hood and didn't see anything. Tried to restart and it turned a little, a big puff of smoke came out of the crankcase breather and it seemed to not want to turn anymore. Looked under the car and no oil and no dents in the pan - a very good sigh. Pushed it on the trailer and that was the end of my day. Got home and did some quick checking. Pulled the valve covers and everything looked good there - so no dropped valve. Pulled the air cleaners off the turbo's and didn't see where they had lost any fins off the wheels. Pulled the plugs and #4 looked like it had been sand blasted. It didn't really beat it up or even change the gap, it just looked sand blasted. Right now I'm thinking it burned a hole in that piston. Don't know why right now or even if that's what it actually did. It was supposed to be in a car show at Square D next weekend so I'll probably wait until after that to pull it down and see what happened. I'll do a leak down test in a day or two but there isn't really any point since there are obviously spare parts in that cylinder and the heads have to come off anyway. I'll post some pics when I finally get it down. Clay
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

well, sh!t. that sucks!!!! you think that cylinder went lean somehow ? hopefully its just a piston...... i have a couple spares for mine when that day comes smoking .
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At this point I don't really know what happened. Could be several things - could have been lean on that cylinder but I'm wondering if the water injection pump might have quit. I wasn't running any more boost than I have in the past - I haven't looked at the data yet, but I'm pretty confident it was at 15 lbs. Could have been inconsistent pump gas - I put in 5 gal before I left. I don't have any O2 readings as the sensor was getting sorta flaky on Wednesday when I drove it to work and it finally decided to die at the track Mad . I'm going to look into the NTK sensor on it instead of the Bosch sensor. I don't really suspect the carburetor itself unless something happened to my powervalve setup. Every log I have looked at has been very consistent and I haven't changed anything on it since I installed the turbo's - before that I hadn't changed in about 1 1/2 years with the Prochager. That's really the hard part - "why". "What" should be pretty obvious, but "why" might not be........Clay
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MufflerBearings69
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1968 Ford Galaxy

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Definitely not the kind of fun you went out for! My friend's turbo honda has been having odd issues we attribute to inconsistent fuel- while a few people still say he is blaming the fuel for other problems- when you make no other changes besides to drive around gently through the tank of fuel giving some issues and refill with gas from another station- then in a few minutes it clears up and will go full boost like it is set up to do, what is one to really think? Just my 2 cents from a boost newbie perspective...
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

how have the plugs looked on previous inspections ? anything unusual on that particular cylinder ? just wondering if maybe there was an issue with rings or valve seals letting a bit of oil in that cylinder. of course, its all speculation until you get into it.
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240Z8
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1972 Datsun 240Z

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bummer Clay!
Sounds like the first time I went to our track with my Procharged Z. I smoked 1/2 3/4 track, then made the return road and died. Hard to turn over then stopped. In my case I found a blown head gasket caused hydrolock. Plug and piston top were nice and clean though Laughing Went through all surfaces and could only come up with defective gasket. Never happened again.
Hope its nothing serious.

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Plugs have looked really good and engine hasn't shown any signs of using any oil. It appeared to be better than the previous 383 as far as oil control goes. I would love for it to be a head gasket, but the plug shows signs of spare stuff in the cylinder. I'll take a pic of the plugs at least and post them. Clay
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
Plugs have looked really good and engine hasn't shown any signs of using any oil. It appeared to be better than the previous 383 as far as oil control goes. I would love for it to be a head gasket, but the plug shows signs of spare stuff in the cylinder. I'll take a pic of the plugs at least and post them. Clay


tAKE A BLOW GUN AND SEE IF YOU HOLED THE PISTON.

Sorry Cap locks on. Rolling Eyes
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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You said it wouldnt turn over, meaning it wouldnt start? or the engine wouldnt rotate? If it doesnt rotate you either have a spun bearing/ bent crank shaft, junk on top of the piston hitting the head, or I suspect it massively detonated and twisted the rod so the valve reliefs are not lined up with the valves and bent them. The reason I mention this stuff is because it has all happened to me! Small blocks do strange things when you really start leaning on them hard.
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William Jones
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1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that sucks and I know exactly how you feel and I have blown up my fair share and it always makes you feel sick to your stomach.

Bam

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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clay,
You might have just popped a head gasket? Hope it isn't too serious hate to hear that anything happened to your ride.
Paul

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I say wouldn't turn over, it wasn't exactly locked up but it was really hesitant - sort of like the battery was half dead. That could have been a part on top of the piston or it could have been it was just hot. It's definately not a gasket - took the turbo and manifold off of that side last night and found a piece of piston ring in the manifold with some little itty bitty aluminum parts - that can't be good. Here is the pic of the plugs. I'll probably wait to pull it until after tiremine finishes moving and gets his truck back at his house - right now my shop is pretty packed. Clay

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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chunks of piston ouch! Not a gasket for sure. Again sorry to hear that happened.

End gap on the rings a little too tight or do you think it was just the failure of the water injection that resulted in an overheated pistion top and subsequent ring land failure?

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't really know at this point. Could be any of the above. I might have had it a little lean even. With the Procharger I had afr's around the 12 - 12.2 range and had to lean the carburetor up just a little to get back to that once I put the turbo's on. Maybe the piston is seeing more heat now and I need to richen it back up to be safe. I always thought the water injection would take care of that. Timing under boost was set at 28* for 15 lbs. I ran that much on the previous 383 with another point of compression and iron heads so I think that should be a safe setting. I'll have to look up what I set the ring gaps at - don't remember right now but they were what JE recommended for the application - supercharged but not turbocharged - so rings butting is another possibility I didn't think of. Clay
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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DUDE! 28 degrees 15 lbs pump gas, not good. Your whole piston is missing above the top ring. On my previously mentioned 94 Fire Bird with the lt4 and T trim blower on pump gas total timing was 10 degrees at 13 pounds. I had the dial control mounted on the windshield pillar with a dark line and the word death at the 10 degree mark! That was with no inter cooler so you might be able to handle a bit more timing, but I think the 28 killed it. We always start out real conservative and bump just a degree at a time until it doesnt improve the trap speed and then back it off a couple degrees. You would be surprised how little timing you need under boost and it will still make the same power. The big boosted cars on race gas are in the 0-5 degrees range total timing to keep things happy. I am friends with Greg Seth Hunter (utube his name) His outlaw nova has been 210 or somthing like that with a twin turbo small block. I will ask him about his tune up and let you know. He says he has never hurt anything so far. Anyway It will turn out OK hopefully.
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