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Project 454 on the stand
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 7:05 pm    Post subject: Project 454 on the stand Reply with quote

I have a 454 on my engine stand that I plan on dropping in my 4wd 86'swb Chevy. The truck is a dream of mine that started with my Dad's 79' when I was about 5yrs old. I have checked the head casting #045 "large oval port truck" that has smaller valves, open chamber, and finishes everything off with a 8:1 CR. I would like to increase the CR to work well with the Corn-blend pump gas we have here in MO-@least 10%. Is there a cam change that would help me get to 9:1 CR without touching anything else? I know the torque concept for 4wd cams. This BBC came out of a 86 1ton crew 4wd. I welcome all ideas and comments. The powertrain combo now looks like this>454>700R4>NP208>3.42R&P's with Lockrights. Stock springs with 32" or 33" tires.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cam doesn't make compression (it can bleed off any compression you have it you have one with longer duration) but with a stock one ton stump puller you have all the compression you are going to have without cutting either the block or the heads. Your motor has dished tops now so flat tops would help build compression and a small dome would help even more.

Big Dave
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not sure what the stock cam specs are, but I do know it came out of a 86'1ton crewcab w/manual trans. The owner said that truck was 4wd too for what ever thats worth. The specs on the stock cam would be nice to have, but I don't have them. The sooner that valve closes the higher your CR is gonna be, right? What would you do with this stock BBC before planting it the truck? My harley has JE pistons in it that have worked really well with a 11.3:1CR, but it has heads on it similar to the W bowtie heads and insane cam. What do you think? Any recipie ideas? Be specific please, because I want to do this right! Thanks fer the help.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you're talking about dynamic compression ratio, then yes you are correct. However, when you talk about having an 8:1 compression ratio after describing heads, chambers, etc. then we assume now you are talking about what's called static compression ratio. It's called static because it is calculated basically with everything still by measuring the required volumes. It can't be changed with different camshaft specs, it's fixed by cylinder volume, head gasket volume, piston dome or dish, and combustion chamber volume (there is another area or two, but they are beyond what most people need to worry about). Dynamic can be changed with camshaft specs as you talk about also. This shows up with a cranking compression test. If you are talking about a 10% ethanol mix, what you have out there isn't really any different that what we have on the east coast. For 87 octane you could bump the static up a bit to probably the 9:1 range, for 93 octane you could easily go to 10:1. Higher is definately possible, but that starts to depend on chamber design, the other supporting systems and your tuning ability. I think even with an 8:1 static compression ratio you can do a little better than the stock cam. I wouldn't go over maybe the 220's or so range for duration and look for something with a little tighter lobe seperation - most stuff will probably be a 110* seperation. If you can find something with a 108*, I'd get that. Be sure to degree it and install it 4* advanced, this will help to close the intake sooner like you mentioned in your post. With a low compression setup and some camshaft, work on the timing curve and get really aggressive with it - there can be a lot gained with that. Carburetor of my choice would be a Holley 3310 vacuum secondary for your setup. Clay
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Twisted Evil I have the heads off now. The pistons have 8 stamped on the center to possibly indicate 8:1cr? To me it indicates their need to be tossed in the recycle section. I have found that the crank is buttoned up with a 2bolt main, both the crank and rods are cast. The combustion chamber seems like a perfect example of the one I have seen in pictures of the peanut port heads, but with much larger oval ports. I don't know the valve sizes at this time and still need to get with Clay to do my first cylinder head cc analysis. Anyone have any experience with 045 heads? I am planning to get on the ball with this soon, so I have to figure out if the heads are the ticket, or junk.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

14081045 makes it an oval port 454 open 122 cc chambered head made from 1978-'87 with 230cc intake runners and 119cc Square exhaust ports with 2.07 intake valves and a 1.72" stubby, thick steel exhaust valve that weighs as much as a stainless steel 1.88" tuliped valve does.

A set of 2.25" tuliped intake stainless steel intake valves combined with the 1.88"exhaust valve would help it to breath better (requires opening the throat and new seats as well as a littlepocket porting). A set of flat topped or even a set of small dome pistons would also boost your power. The rods are forged 5120 steel by the way not cast iron. Though the crank is cast, it will support 600 horse easily.

Your cast aluminum pistons are fitted with cast iron rings and therings are prone to cracking if over heated; as they are fitted far too tight for any kind hot rodding.

Big Dave
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 23, 2010 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sweet, thanks for the feedback. What flow potential do these heads have and is the combustion chamber too big, or will the right pistons take care of that since they are open chamber? With domes and valves what static cr should I shoot for if I wanted to run a @.050*242-242/.520-.520? 11:1? Will the heads support that combo? With iron heads like these and crap pump gas can it work?
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
If you're talking about dynamic compression ratio, then yes you are correct. However, when you talk about having an 8:1 compression ratio after describing heads, chambers, etc. then we assume now you are talking about what's called static compression ratio. It's called static because it is calculated basically with everything still by measuring the required volumes. It can't be changed with different camshaft specs, it's fixed by cylinder volume, head gasket volume, piston dome or dish, and combustion chamber volume (there is another area or two, but they are beyond what most people need to worry about). Dynamic can be changed with camshaft specs as you talk about also. This shows up with a cranking compression test. If you are talking about a 10% ethanol mix, what you have out there isn't really any different that what we have on the east coast. For 87 octane you could bump the static up a bit to probably the 9:1 range, for 93 octane you could easily go to 10:1. Higher is definately possible, but that starts to depend on chamber design, the other supporting systems and your tuning ability. I think even with an 8:1 static compression ratio you can do a little better than the stock cam. I wouldn't go over maybe the 220's or so range for duration and look for something with a little tighter lobe seperation - most stuff will probably be a 110* seperation. If you can find something with a 108*, I'd get that. Be sure to degree it and install it 4* advanced, this will help to close the intake sooner like you mentioned in your post. With a low compression setup and some camshaft, work on the timing curve and get really aggressive with it - there can be a lot gained with that. Carburetor of my choice would be a Holley 3310 vacuum secondary for your setup. Clay


I think 9.3:1 cr with pump gas is what I want to do here. I plan on running it in the 1800-5800rpm range with avg about 2200rpm. With a 108*lsa and the 220ish dur what size intake runner, or aftermarket head for that matter would work best. I know that the balance needs to be right with the flow #s and charge speed, but I am not sure what to do to accomplish this. I plan on using the stock crank and having the cylinders punched .030. The block is seasoned but stock right now. Nothing went bad, it just sat on a crate for several years. What heads & pistons, intake & headers should I buy and what else should I do to the new parts & block before assembly. This is "my" first garage build. Thanks for the replys everyone! Second half of school is almost finished and I have set aside the first week of May for assembly and install.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your compression goals and cam selection sound pretty good, especially if you shoot for the high 220's, maybe low 230's still should be fine. If you have factory oval port heads, they have a lot of potential. I'll search around for some links to show you some of what I'm talking about. As far as the other parts, for my first engine I used the kits that Summit Racing sells. They package about everything you need and make it very convenient for a first build. They come with pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, freeze plugs, oil pump, timing set, plastigage, rod bolt boots and assembly lube. Clay
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a link that should provide a lot of reading.
http://www.chevelles.com/forums/search.php?searchid=5761832
Here is an example of on of the rebuild kits I am talking about. I think you will almost have to run a domed piston to get some decent compression (let me check though).
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/FEM-MHP143-300/
Search around their site and find exactly what you need. I'll try to look around other places for some different prices / combinations. Clay

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a kit from Competition Products. Price sounds really good, but may not be as good on quality - but just giving it for information.
http://www.competitionproducts.com/Enginetech-Master-Rebuild-Kit-Chev-454-Std-020-020/productinfo/CPXMKC454B022/
Search around, even on ebaymotors and see what you can find. I just listed these two because I have dealt with them many times and like their customer service. Clay

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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2010 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I visited 2 businesses and talked to another over the landline about getting my block worked and none of them have called me back after promising that they would! Ha, they must not need any work? Anyone know someone in the mid-west that is worth talking to? I live in west-central Missouri.
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now it is time to order the pistons, rods, crank so I can get the block cut to match. My heads are 045's so I'm looking at a 4.25" Stroker crank combo to make my swb4by chevy run like it should have from the factory(I'm addicted to power). Please comment on this http://www.coasthigh.com/Chevy-496-Dome-Top-18-0cc-Scat-Based-Kit-p/13729-sca-472-c496-1.htm

That should help things go up in smoke with comp.cams hydraulic XEgrind bumpstick 218/224@.050 gross lift .504/.510 with a lobesep@110 OpRange 1300-5600. I'm not looking to work the hell out of this truck, but I am planning to drive it like I stole it when I'm in the mood and look good doing it. I've wanted one of these BBC's since I was 8 and now I'm in business. Blast away with comments, and such as I will watch this thread close and place my parts order on Friday 25June. Thank's guys..
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SkinnRodd
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My 045 heads are in question at this point and I am considering these http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-152125/ is there anything wrong with using these in my combo besides the pumpgas cr issue? I need to get these heads of mine checked out asap so I know what to do, before ordering the crank exc. I'll drop them off in the morning for inspection. Comments are welcome and appreciated.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you're leaving WAY too much power on the table with that camshaft selection. My buddy has a mid 230's at 0.050" in a 454 / factory rectangle port and it is very mild as far as idle and streetability and that's about the smallest cam range I would consider for a 496. It looks like the 045's are shown as a "small oval port" head. I personally wouldn't use them. If you could find a good deal on some factory oval ports (#781,049, or 186 it looks like) they would be good castings to start with. However by the time you get all the necessary work done (probably all guides, cut for larger valves, pocket port, surfaced, etc.) then it sucks because you are rapidly approaching the cost of the Summit rectangular ports. I haven't messed with a lot of big blocks but I'd probably try the Summit heads, especially on your 496. RPM air gap is a hard intake to beat for what you are looking to do. I hope some big block guys will chime in. Clay
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