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TCI direct drum 327900 does fail but not where I expected
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robins44
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just dont understand your thinking russ, why would i send my broken tranny in because of your part, just so you can charge me to put the same damn thing in! You need to offer this gentlemen some options, ive heard some nasty horror stories about tci's product quality as of late. Dont know if you should move on or not paul, im glad to here this problem did not affect anything else on your ride!
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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmmmmmmm


ive pondered replacing my 700r4 with a 350

now i need a 400 Embarassed huh yeah thats what i want



more parasitic losses Embarassed where do i sign up for that



carry on fellas popcorn

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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ.at.TCI wrote:
Paul P wrote:
All quiet on this from TCI. If they offered a replacement that is still questionable because it would be the same thing.

To suggest I need a Turbo 400 is absolutely absurd.

Replace a trans and carbon fiber driveshaft because of a defective intermediate drum? I don't think so. Rolling Eyes

Trans will go back together with an ATI drum by the end of the week.



Paul,
I see that you keep editing your post on cpg nation. But like i STATED PREVIOUSLY we ARE willing to help you out but i can not do anything with out seeing the product first. Please send the part and and we will go from there.



Russ, Why do you give dis pare to a person that runs you're stuff!!!

I don't for the fact you guys have never stood by you're stuff in a racing environment. Easy way out everytime!!

Funny Fact is I use stock stuff and survive with a 400. You're aftermarket sprags and such are really disappointing.

I will go one further and say the 400 in my car was a clutch AA supercharghed with all stock parts before I inherited it.
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Skunkworkx
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would not think it the proper "press fit" that this would need to be pined or tacked.
Sounds to me like the tolerances may have stacked up in the wrong direction which could cause looseness..

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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just my opinion but it seems that the TCI piece is not as well designed as the ATI. that being said, someone simply built a better mousetrap. i dont really know what TCI could do for you at this point. unless thay have a redesigned sprag, you would end up with the same thing with the same issues later on. i would send it to them in hopes that they build a better product but the ATI seems to suit your needs at this point. BTW, im not bashing TCI, because my trans hasnt let me down in 10 years, i just call em as i see em Wink .
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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SMOKEmUP
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
just my opinion but it seems that the TCI piece is not as well designed as the ATI. that being said, someone simply built a better mousetrap. i dont really know what TCI could do for you at this point. unless thay have a redesigned sprag, you would end up with the same thing with the same issues later on. i would send it to them in hopes that they build a better product but the ATI seems to suit your needs at this point. BTW, im not bashing TCI, because my trans hasnt let me down in 10 years, i just call em as i see em Wink .


I agree. I think Paul knows that as well. I would be interested to see a side by side comparion of the two parts.

Paul if you decide to buy the ATI piece take some side by side pics showing the difference between to the two.

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Russ.at.TCI
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
To clear somethings up with you and the others. I then decided to get a few of our engineers involved. As soon as i sent the post and they looked at the picture and stated right away that THIS IS NOT OUR PRODUCT. Our 327900 HD 36 element sprag does not have the knurling on the inner race. It also is not pinned in the side like that ours is pined trough the top.

I am very sorry for all the confusion. Here are some pictures i took just moments ago.

This is our 327900 which we rate at 700hp up to about 3200lbs. If the car is heaver it will not hold as much "power". Also a little back ground on how they are made the drum and race are machined to a press fit. Then they press in the two pins you see in the picture. after that the inner race surface is precision ground to the correct size.















But like i said before a full blown built th350 will still never be as strong as a decent th400. we build our th350 up to about 700hp but we build th400 up to 3000+hp.

Any one with any further questions please feel free to contact me. TCI is here to help and will always stand by THERE product.

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Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All,
Thanks for the intelligent and rational discussion and support on this subject. I agree with all the posts here this is not a bashing of TCI. The Converter and Transbrake I have are TCI and they work as designed without issues and I could not be happier.

The fact is if I had broken an outer race or sprag I would not have contacted TCI. I would have fixed the problem by purchasing another one and installing it on the drum. They are only around $50 bucks to replace. The problem is the foundation of the drum, "the securing of the inner race" which is a design decision by TCI failed and never should have. That race and drum should be permanently secured together period end of story no matter who makes it.

I did order an ATI drum last night with a 10% discount from Summit for a total of $281.00 delivered to my door Very Happy . This is going in the trans before weeks end.

As far as sending the drum back to TCI for inspection and getting an estimate goes. I think that spending more $$ than I already have on a part that will be returned to me with the same design just doesn't make sense. This is speaking from a safety as well as a financial aspect.

Now if I returned it and they offered to cover repairs and told me that they are making some changes to the way the race is fitted to the drum that might sway me. Is that likely to happen I think not. If I have some extra $$ after the holidays I might send it back to them. I'm sure they will still remember me....

I consider myself lucky and others can benefit from my experience here. Nothing happened to the trans other wise and I can keep my Turbo 350 and $1100.00 M-W billet yoked Carbon fiber drive shaft intact in the car. Spending probably somewhere near $3000.00 to replace both the trans (turbo 400) and driveshaft because of this failure is an idea i would have never thought of or suggested to someone else in my situation. ATI rates their transbrake Turbo 350s to 850HP. TCI told me when I was putting this together that with the parts I selected it should be good for 700+HP. Their site says "over 600 normally aspirated horsepower". TCI is now telling me that there should be a turbo 400 in the car with 500+HP. This is back pedaling against what they said before and currently claim. Either way what I have will survive behind a 500+HP small block. Very Happy

I will post some pics of the differences in the ATI vs TCI drum. Who knows maybe TCI can learn something from this I know I have.

I'll take a pic of the stamping of your part number that is on it and the receipt from TCI back when I bought it. It is your product be it old or not. Jerry did tell me if it was an older one it might not be pinned. Looks like it is better and improved BRAVO. I do have proof that this is one of your babies...

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Russ.at.TCI
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
All,
Thanks for the intelligent and rational discussion and support on this subject. I agree with all the posts here this is not a bashing of TCI. The Converter and Transbrake I have are TCI and they work as designed without issues and I could not be happier.

The fact is if I had broken an outer race or sprag I would not have contacted TCI. I would have fixed the problem by purchasing another one and installing it on the drum. They are only around $50 bucks to replace. The problem is the foundation of the drum, "the securing of the inner race" which is a design decision by TCI failed and never should have. That race and drum should be permanently secured together period end of story no matter who makes it.

I did order an ATI drum last night with a 10% discount from Summit for a total of $281.00 delivered to my door Very Happy . This is going in the trans before weeks end.

As far as sending the drum back to TCI for inspection and getting an estimate goes. I think that spending more $$ than I already have on a part that will be returned to me with the same design just doesn't make sense. This is speaking from a safety as well as a financial aspect.

Now if I returned it and they offered to cover repairs and told me that they are making some changes to the way the race is fitted to the drum that might sway me. Is that likely to happen I think not. If I have some extra $$ after the holidays I might send it back to them. I'm sure they will still remember me....

I consider myself lucky and others can benefit from my experience here. Nothing happened to the trans other wise and I can keep my Turbo 350 and $1100.00 M-W billet yoked Carbon fiber drive shaft intact in the car. Spending probably somewhere near $3000.00 to replace both the trans (turbo 400) and driveshaft because of this failure is an idea i would have never thought of or suggested to someone else in my situation. ATI rates their transbrake Turbo 350s to 850HP. TCI told me when I was putting this together that with the parts I selected it should be good for 700+HP. Their site says "over 600 normally aspirated horsepower". TCI is now telling me that there should be a turbo 400 in the car with 500+HP. This is back pedaling against what they said before and currently claim. Either way what I have will survive behind a 500+HP small block. Very Happy

I will post some pics of the differences in the ATI vs TCI drum. Who knows maybe TCI can learn something from this I know I have.

I'll take a pic of the stamping of your part number that is on it and the receipt from TCI back when I bought it. It is your product be it old or not. Jerry did tell me if it was an older one it might not be pinned.


Paul
This product is not ours the engineers i spoke two have both been here for over 7years WE HAVE NEVER MADE our sprag's like that. Think what you may do what you want i just want every one to know that are product will not fail like yours did and will last in the right application for a long time. People will rate there transmissions how they want we rate them to last for years to come not a season or two. Can you put 1000hp be hind that sprag sure you can will it hold up for ever NO. When i say 700hp in a 3200lbs or less car it is to insure that people dont have any issues with our product.

Like i said above "little back ground on how they are made the drum and race are machined to a press fit. Then they press in the two pins you see in the picture. after that the inner race surface is precision ground to the correct size" This is the press fit and pin method we have done for over 7 years now.

_________________
Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok Russ.

It is more than 7 years old but with very limited use. During the 5 of the 8 years Bush was in office I was unemployed and could not afford the gas to drive it. It just sat in storage. There are many who can vouch for the amount of use this car gets and again it is very little.

I do love your converters and transbrakes too! They really hold up well! All the parts in this Turbo 350 trans are either GM or TCI. Same goes for my 700r4 in my truck. You have been helpful and responsive no question about it.

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robins44
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wow this is getting interesting! Very Happy
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af2
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 08, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

robins44 wrote:
wow this is getting interesting! Very Happy


Hmmmmmmmmmm?
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 09, 2009 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ATI drum will be here tomorrow. I am not going to get into a pissing contest with these guys. It is not worth it. What is done is done. The cost of shipping it and repairing it is probably more than what I paid for the new ATI drum. From what their process is described as it will be a better drum as it is splined and press fit. All I here are good things about ATI up at NED. Their tech guy did know how their drum was constructed without going to the engineers.


THIS IS I MEAN WAS ONE OF THEIR DRUMS

I know I have the receipt too in a pile from the last 24 years that I have owned this car.

Maybe back then they lost their 0 punch??? Laughing


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MufflerBearings69
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 31, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting read... I will keep my opinions on specific product manufacturers to myself. lol

I cant say anything negative of TCI or ATI, i have parts from both companies, both have done fine in my limited power application...

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ericnova72
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I realize this is an older post, but I believe Russ is telling the truth. I have a 14 year old TCI drum and 36 element sprag, and it is exactly like the picture he posted, right down to the green Parkerized coating on all of it and the pinning method. I put it in in 1995 and it has been perfect behind a 500hp 383.

The broken one pictured does not look like the TCI at all, maybe BTE?

Maybe Paul should post a receipt to back his claim.
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