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TCI direct drum 327900 does fail but not where I expected
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:33 am    Post subject: TCI direct drum 327900 does fail but not where I expected Reply with quote

Well it is a long story regarding the Turbo 350 in my Chevelle. Back in April when I took the car out for a first spring blast I had 2nd gear act a bit strange and I thought it was a bad shifter cable. When I checked the cable it was really worn out like 1 gear change of slop. I replaced it and then got into the firewall repair that I posted on the site here. That is finally complete with some updates to the engine before putting it back in. I had just finished up with things and decided to take it out and get the car inspected. No 2nd gear? Turned around and checked the shifter cable adjustment. It was off slightly so I adjusted it and tried again. Still nothing there when it was supposed to hit second. I drained the pan and pulled it. It was pristine, very clean no debris at all to speak of. So out it came today and I pulled the pump to see WTF was going on. Intermediate clutches (2nd) were fine no damage. Sprag was in place as was the outer race. The snap ring was off so I took a closer look at it. I turned the outer race and noticed it was turning in both directions??? Hmmm. Strange thing was nothing else seemed to move either. I removed the drum to take a closer look at it. It turns out (no pun intended) that in order to install the narrower width 36 element sprag on to the drum they have to press on a inner ring or race. This inner race spun on the drum which caused the failure. Very strange not what I expected. I should have been pressed on and pinned or welded. See Pic. I am going to call TCI in the morning and ask if this is a common issue. Maybe get a break on a new one?

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi


Last edited by Paul P on Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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clay
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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Location: South Carolina
318129.23 points


1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really strange way of doing that. Press fits are fine, but not knowing what that race has to endure. Also it looks like they knurled the i.d. of the outer race which isn't helping things either - it reduces surface contact. I'm curoius as to what TCI's response will be. I have a TH350 on the floor that I started to build when I came across a 400 and used it instead. Our local parts supply house has a different outer race that used the original style roller clutch and is supposed to be pretty tough. Have you heard good or bad about this "fix". BTW - this was the 350 I ran for a while and it too suffered the no 2nd gear - it split the outer race. Let us know. Clay
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I just got off the phone with TCI tech Jerry who is the best guy to talk to there without a doubt. It was pinned as well as pressed apparently and they only use 2 pins. You can see where one sheared off in the pic. I is not repairable to be truthful. The discount that he could probably work out for me would not be less than the Jegs or Summit price because they can't sell it direct for less than they do. I might buy a Coan Extreme duty or ATI unit. Both are also at the moment $30.00 less than the TCI drum. Like 10 sec says it is only another couple hundred bucks....
Ouch! Right near the holidays not exactly the time to go out and buy stuff for yourself.

Jerry at TCI said I could send it back to his attention and see what they could do about it but it might cost more than it's worth. I thought that they would say hey send it in and we will take care of it. Rolling Eyes

I did speak to Coan and ATI.

Walker at Coan said they just press theirs on with nothing else. They also said that they have not heard of this type of failure. They did say to never do a 1-2 shift in the burnout box.

ATI looks to be the best. John at said they cut off and press on a splined race and then machine it round on a lathe after.

As far a TCI and Coan never hearing of this problem ATI said that is just false or they are not out there racing!

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi


Last edited by Paul P on Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:02 pm; edited 1 time in total
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess nobody does a 1-2 burnout on the street either? Laughing Rolling Eyes
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Paul P
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what is that? Laughing
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Russ.at.TCI
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
I am sorry to hear about the part sir. I was wondering how old is the sprag?

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Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couple of years but this car is driven very little. This year less than 100 street miles and no track visits. Still main point of failure should not be the inner race regardless of how old it is.

I've suggested that if you are building a Turbo 350 that this part is a must to many guys on this site.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Russ.at.TCI
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
Couple of years but this car is driven very little. This year less than 100 street miles and no track visits. Still main point of failure should not be the inner race regardless of how old it is.

I've suggested that if you are building a Turbo 350 that this part is a must to many guys on this site.


Paul,
Just like Jerry said we need to see it before we can say if it was something that could be a manufacturing issue. However being that it is at least 2 years old it is out of warranty and any thing that would have been manufactured improperly breaks right off the bat not 2 years down the road.

I agree with you that a extreme duty sprag such as our 36-element 327900 is a must when building a th350. Sadly enough with the design and nature of a TH350, no matter what sprag is used it will not last for ever depending on application and abuse.

_________________
Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok....

I won't recommend another TCI sprag that is all.

ATI 355682 Splined and press fit here I come.

A better design by far engaged into the 4 notches in the drum hub.

Give my regards to Jerry.




_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Russ.at.TCI
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul,
We never said that we would not take care of you. If it was something that was on our end. Over the phone or the net we can not inspect a product we need you to send it into us and i can give you pricing if you would like to call or email me.

As for a 530hp 3500lbs car i would always recommend a TH400 for the reliability of a Track/Street car of that application.

weather or not you go with some one else's product i dont want you to feel wronged by TCI in any way please give me a call or email.
Thanks

Russ

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Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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robins44
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ.at.TCI wrote:
Paul P wrote:
Couple of years but this car is driven very little. This year less than 100 street miles and no track visits. Still main point of failure should not be the inner race regardless of how old it is.

I've suggested that if you are building a Turbo 350 that this part is a must to many guys on this site.


Paul,
Just like Jerry said we need to see it before we can say if it was something that could be a manufacturing issue. However being that it is at least 2 years old it is out of warranty and any thing that would have been manufactured improperly breaks right off the bat not 2 years down the road.

I agree with you that a extreme duty sprag such as our 36-element 327900 is a must when building a th350. Sadly enough with the design and nature of a TH350, no matter what sprag is used it will not last for ever depending on application and abuse.


Not the best response i would want to hear from a manufacture speaking on a forum lol, am i the only one? Ive had very good luck with coan converters, internal tranny components from them i cannot speak for.

Cody
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Paul P
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Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thanked them on their site postings.

After talking to ATI about their process I think that is where I will go. I know that TCI did tell me that this trans with the components I chose was good for 700+ HP now 530 is a lot? I appreciate their responsiveness to my problem. They still make a great converter the 9" 2513 in the car is nice!

http://www.cpgnation.com/forum/turbo-350-327900-intermdiate-drum-failure-2919.html

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ.at.TCI wrote:

Paul,
Just like Jerry said we need to see it before we can say if it was something that could be a manufacturing issue. However being that it is at least 2 years old it is out of warranty and any thing that would have been manufactured improperly breaks right off the bat not 2 years down the road.

I agree with you that a extreme duty sprag such as our 36-element 327900 is a must when building a th350. Sadly enough with the design and nature of a TH350, no matter what sprag is used it will not last for ever depending on application and abuse.

The actual age of this product is misleading. I can vouch for the limited use the trans has seen. Based on the actual run time the failure is premature IMO.

Russ we all understand things break especially when racing. However I do not agree with your blanket statement saying he should switch to a Turbo 400.

Paul knows how to build a Turbo 350 to stand up to serious power. It sounds to me as he is trying to use your product and looking for some support from your company. I think that would be a wise choice on your part since a good amount of people listen to what he has to say on this and other forums.

Regardless of how things turn out hopefully we all can learn from Paul's part failure and make up our own minds as to which is the right product for us.

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Stop running from your pain and embrace your pain. Your pain is going to be a part of your prize.

I challenge you to push yourself.
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

All quiet on this from TCI. If they offered a replacement that is still questionable because it would be the same thing.

To suggest I need a Turbo 400 is absolutely absurd.

Replace a trans and carbon fiber driveshaft because of a defective intermediate drum? I don't think so. Rolling Eyes

Trans will go back together with an ATI drum by the end of the week.

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Russ.at.TCI
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Joined: 07 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
All quiet on this from TCI. If they offered a replacement that is still questionable because it would be the same thing.

To suggest I need a Turbo 400 is absolutely absurd.

Replace a trans and carbon fiber driveshaft because of a defective intermediate drum? I don't think so. Rolling Eyes

Trans will go back together with an ATI drum by the end of the week.



Paul,
I see that you keep editing your post on cpg nation. But like i STATED PREVIOUSLY we ARE willing to help you out but i can not do anything with out seeing the product first. Please send the part and and we will go from there.

_________________
Russell Culver
TCI Product Specialist
151 Industrial Dr.
Ashland, MS 38603
1-888-776-9824 Ext. 335
Russell.Culver@tciauto.com
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