Home | Register | Login | Contact Us

 
Auto Math
Classifieds
Forum
Gallery
Games
Garage
Tech Articles
Utilites
 
FAQFAQ    SearchSearch    RegisterRegister    Log inLog in    Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages    Forum Subscriptions1/4 Mile Table 

got my plan squashed, plan b
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SMOKEmUP.com Forum Index -> Forced Induction
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:57 am    Post subject: got my plan squashed, plan b Reply with quote

ok well, listed the combo i wanted to use, and called up sd concepts. basically, its not happening. long story short, he told me one, my compression would be quite a bit low, which would make it hard starting, low vacuum, pain in the ass to drive around, and talked about how forced induction has come along way and such low compressions are not needed anymore.

he started off by mentioning it being a science to build a blown motor, which is definitely true, and doing it the old fashin way of making a low compression motor, and slopping a blower on it was similar to bashing two rocks together.

also, he said with the heads i have, even with the lowest pulleys, the 8-71 would most likely make more boost then intented, and wouldnt even make considerable power.

he said using that blower would be useless without a set of aluminum heads, and to get the numbers i want, they would need the works, porting, valves, and so on. i would have to use aluminum if i were to run a decent compression, but still stuff good amounts of boost in it. which by the time thats over ide be in the hole another added 2 g notes.

so i came up with a solid resolution to all of this delema......Big block.

i know i can find a running 454 around here with low miles. i am thinking that i would be best off taking a running 454, and doing a basic rebuild.

the rebuild would include obviously all new gaskets, rings, bearings, but i would wake it up with a nice solid flat tappet cam, and a set of pistons to get me around 9-9.2:1 compression.

with that compression, i could safely run 5-7lbs of boost through the 6-71 and easily redline at 6000 with no harm.

as of right now that is the most cost effective for me. what do you guys think? i mean shit my basically stock 350 made 320 to the wheels on 6psi through a 142, so i should make 400 to the wheels with 6psi through a 454. not to mention the torque would be insane. tell me your opinions!

and af2 my bad the other night for loosing my temper. this past week has sucked in every way and has been very stressful. what i need is to hire comeone to kiss my ass all day and tell me im doing things right, i think that woul dmake it better Laughing

_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
af2
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tim, don't sweat it.

I will write about 2 blown small block builds we did that are still running strong. There is not rocket science involved. Both run 6-71 roots.

Engine#1 built in 1987 327ci.:
Trw forged 350 flat tops spun 180* to change rod angle at tdc.
1.145" down and a .039 felpro stainless fire ring gasket.
Trw plasma CERAMIC top ring set. Stock Pink rods, LG journal forged crank.
Isky Z-70 solid .548 lift and 264@.050 Doug Nash 5 speed shift @ 7600 rpm.
3.55 Dana 60 with Sure-Grip posi. 12" slicks. Car was #2925 w/driver.
Ran 11.02 @ 126 mph on 92 octane premium.

Engine#2 built in 1989 355ci.
Trw forged 383 flat tops spun 180* to change rod angle at tdc.
1.148" down and a .039 felpro stainless fire ring gasket.
TRW plasma CERAMIC top ring set. Stock Pink rods, Forged crank.
Isky Z-85 solid .585 lift and 284 @ .050 T400 with 3500 stall shift at 8100 rpm.
4.88 Quick Change with posi and 12" slicks Car at #2950 w/driver.
Ran 10.85 @ 129 mph on 92 premium.

With using Smokes calc you have:
With #1 = 397 rear and 496 fly
With # 2 = 450 rear and 562 fly

I will say both cars do not push you in the seat. They slam you!
Car #1 will scare the crap out of you in 3rd gear when the peddle goes down! Twisted Evil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
af2
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to say both engines are in the 7.2:1 static range and use stock delco starters. They are street cars.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
SMOKEmUP
PostMaster


Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 3169

65097.54 points


1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What's the deal with the motor in it now? Why does that have to come out?
_________________
Stop running from your pain and embrace your pain. Your pain is going to be a part of your prize.

I challenge you to push yourself.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
af2
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:51 pm    Post subject: Re: got my plan squashed, plan b Reply with quote

87IrocTim wrote:
sd concepts. basically, its not happening. long story short, he told me one, my compression would be quite a bit low, which would make it hard starting, low vacuum, pain in the ass to drive around, and talked about how forced induction has come along way and such low compressions are not needed anymore. WHATTTTTT?????

he started off by mentioning it being a science to build a blown motor, which is definitely true WHATTTTTTTTT?, and doing it the old fashin way of making a low compression motor, and slopping a blower on it was similar to bashing two rocks together. WHATTTTTTT?

also, he said with the heads i have, even with the lowest pulleys, the 8-71 would most likely make more boost then intented, and wouldnt even make considerable power. WHATTTTTTTTT?

he said using that blower would be useless without a set of aluminum heads,WHATTTTTTTTT??? and to get the numbers i want, they would need the works, porting, valves, and so on. i would have to use aluminum if i were to run a decent compression, but still stuff good amounts of boost in it. which by the time thats over ide be in the hole another added 2 g notes. WHATTTTTTTT?

so i came up with a solid resolution to all of this delema......Big block.

i know i can find a running 454 around here with low miles. i am thinking that i would be best off taking a running 454, and doing a basic rebuild.

the rebuild would include obviously all new gaskets, rings, bearings, but i would wake it up with a nice solid flat tappet cam, and a set of pistons to get me around 9-9.2:1 compression.

with that compression, i could safely run 5-7lbs of boost through the 6-71 and easily redline at 6000 with no harm.

as of right now that is the most cost effective for me. what do you guys think? i mean shit my basically stock 350 made 320 to the wheels on 6psi through a 142, so i should make 400 to the wheels with 6psi through a 454. not to mention the torque would be insane. tell me your opinions! WHATTTTTTTTT?????

and af2 my bad the other night for loosing my temper. this past week has sucked in every way and has been very stressful. what i need is to hire comeone to kiss my ass all day and tell me im doing things right, i think that woul dmake it better Laughing


Not trying to upset you with the things above I posted! I am just trying to piss you off!!!! That total bunch of crap is that! and nothing else!!!

MMMMMMMMMMFKKKKK!!! No wonder performance shops are taking a crap!!!! With blow hards like that!!!!!

I'll take a blown small block street car any day!!!!!
If you have never rode in a roots blown small block you don't know the instant power on hand! There is no waiting, it is in the foot!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the thing is, sd does not do things at all like other shops, and what i mean is, yes i could get this motor together, get it running good and stick the blower on it, and make some damn good power, but the way sd does it is, they will take that same blower and motor, and rather then make 400 to the wheels, they will get the same combo to make 500 to the wheels, and last 200,000 miles.

i know you guys may not believe that, but i go there all the time, and i see hwat they do and ive seen many cars and engines they have built, and its absolutely insane.

a good example, the owner scotts callenger, is a 9.5:1 procharged mopar 383. it makes 1300 dyno proven horsepower and runs 8.5's all day, runs on 93 octane gas and can be street driven at any time. also, he runs 8.5's with no transbrake, he jsut rides the torque converter.

that is the best example i can explain of how they work. but, the way they do things is also very expensive. scott does all the porting and head work, and he doesnt just port it big and bolt it on, he does all this crazy flowbench stuff that i am even unsure of what he does, he jsut somehow squeezes obsurd amounts of power out of nothing.

but enough of that, i ended up buying a big block. now some of you mihgt now say, you didnt have to do that, but listen to this.

it is a 4 bolt 396 bored 30 over.

the best part, it is fresh out of the machine shop, hasnt been put together yet, zero miles. everything including the heads were re done and best of all, it is 9:1 compression, meaning i can put a safe 6psi of boost into it, have no problems what so every being at 6000 rpm, will mostly likely go higher, and run 93 gas with no special injection or boost retard ignition.

i just bought it for $1000. teeheeheehee Twisted Evil


oh and smoke, the reason i would have to take my motor out would be to change the pistons and connecting rods, and camshaft, which would be much easier outside the car, but as you now know, that 350 will be obsolete, and will be put in my camaro.

_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
af2
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Engine #1 built in 1987
Engine#2 built in 1989
I wonder if ?? Never mind. Laughing Laughing
It is too bad these days you have to rely on things that have little to do with what is really going on.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Big Dave
Moderator


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may not be rocket science but if you start with a lower initial compression, you can build more total boost. For racing that would be great. On the street it depends upon your pulleys (underdriven or over driven whether you would want a lower initial compression. As he mentioned in an under driven scenario you wouldn't have much bottom end anything (just like a mid seventies smog motor).

If it were overdriven you would run low compression and get an instant improvement through out the RPM range. Only problem with an overdriven Roots blower is heat. To solve that problem think big (8-71 instead of a 6-71 blower) as it moves more air per revolution with less heat build up. The alternative would be a screw compressor with a heat exchanger under it.

Big Dave
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had a long post typed up but decided not to post it. youre right Tim, you cant build a decent motor without spending thousands and thousands of dollars at a performance shop with the best parts money can buy. thats why all of us poor bastards are struggling to get our cars to run better than 16 seconds.
_________________
af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

haha very true. well ill let you guys kno how this 402 goes, im sure i will run into some little snags i may need help with. goal is to have her done by april. well see how it all goes.
_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
af2
Member


Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5558
Location: grassvalley, ca
71227.76 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you tell us what exactly you got for the $1000.00? I'll be nice.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes i will let you know the details and engine specs soon, as of what it basically is, a 4 bolt 396 bored .030, all rebuilt, including the heads. still was never assembled after the machine work was done. i have no specs on the heads yet, or any specs for that matter, but i will be finding out this coming weekend, and no, i didnt give cash until i check everything out, but he is holding it for me first. ill get you the info.
_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and also af2, the two combos you show are nasty and all, but like ive been saying, i dont have the money for that. yes i can get what i want out of my small block, but with big mulaah spent that i dont have.

i am getting this big block by payments, not by cash, so a 600 dollar set of forged pistons? not happening. $1000 heads plus around $600 for the porting and such, not happening. plus the machine work to my block such as getting bored and honed, then getting the crank turned? no way. but what i can do is, take a low mileage big block i bought for $1000, put a $160 sollid cam in it, stick a blower on it at 6psi and go.

_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Big Dave
Moderator


Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

87IrocTim wrote:
and also af2, the two combos you show are nasty and all, but like ive been saying, i dont have the money for that. yes i can get what i want out of my small block, but with big mulaah spent that i dont have.

i am getting this big block by payments, not by cash, so a 600 dollar set of forged pistons? not happening. $1000 heads plus around $600 for the porting and such, not happening. plus the machine work to my block such as getting bored and honed, then getting the crank turned? no way. but what i can do is, take a low mileage big block i bought for $1000, put a $160 sollid cam in it, stick a blower on it at 6psi and go.


Where can you buy new BBC heads for only a thousand? If you were short before, I caution you BBC parts cost nearly twice what you are used to for SBC parts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
87IrocTim
Member


Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 448

16836.12 points



PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2009 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well supposably the heads are early heads, decent breathing, that should atleast get me some good midrange. the cam i am getting is a solid flat tappet, with a powerband of 2000-6000, so they dont have to be big breathing heads, if they were truck heads i would have an issue, but from what i know so far they are not.
_________________
"Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines." -Enzo Ferrari
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    SMOKEmUP.com Forum Index -> Forced Induction All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
Home | Contact Us | Automath | Cam Files | Dyno Search | Forum | Garage | Picture Gallery | Reaction Timer

Copyright 1997-2016 SMOKEmUP.com All rights reserved.
Advertising Info     Disclaimer     Privacy Policy