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Brake Help-Drag Racing
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clay
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Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with finding the right person. Over the years, there have been some really good people working at the parts stores around here and I have followed some of them from store to store - we're in sort of a dry spell right now. Clay
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: Houston,Texas
347032.52 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
I agree with finding the right person. Over the years, there have been some really good people working at the parts stores around here and I have followed some of them from store to store - we're in sort of a dry spell right now. Clay


i have a S-10 booster, 1-ton truck master with no proportioning or residual valves on 4-wheel disc. took a bit of trial and error to get everything right but i couldnt have done it without my parts guy.

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It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Aerosmith
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Posts: 232
Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Having been an Auto parts store manager for 12 years, then 4 as a service center manager, I take full advantage of the availability of the online catalogs that Autozone and Advance use. I do not as a rule go to the parts store without having my part numbers in hand, or memorized. I'll say "I need a 3510ms starter(later auto trans sbc metric) and the guy will say "What kind of car", to which I answer "doesn't matter" and he'll say "I have to look it up", so I end it by saying "it's for a race car". Shuts 'em up everytime.
I really do feel sorry for them these days though, the new kids are put in front of a computer and he has a step by step deal he has to go through with on screen prompts. I learned when I had a 4' long double stack catalog rack and you had to know what company actually made knuter valves before you could even worry about the application specific questions.
I guess I'm a dinosaur gifted in a lost art, god help us when the electricity goes off!
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pro60chevy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 7:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm right there with you, I started out in the Auto Parts business in 1973, back then you didn't have to open a catalog to know all the parts that a GM or Ford or Mopar needed for a tune-up. The trouble came when someone needed something for a foreign car.

We have an Advanced Auto Parts store right across the street from us, and an Autozone less then a mile away. We get alot of business from both of them.
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MufflerBearings69
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1968 Ford Galaxy

PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SO the way to tell if my new master has the residual pressure valve or not is..... ?
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pro60chevy
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the derail. Sad

If you have the master cylinder off the car, take a punch that will fit inside the small hole where the brake line seats. If there is a valve in there, when you start to insert the punch, you will feel resistance as the valve moves against a small spring. You could always use a small flashlight and a magnifying glass to look inside the hole and see it also, but the valve is black so it might be tough to actually see.

If this is too confusing, I'll take a series of pictures on Tuesday when I get back to work, of exactly what it looks like. I have several of those valves on my bench.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have been a lot of changes to brakes historically. Disc brakes appeared back in 1969 and had a porportioning valve (basically an orrifice to slow down the time it took to build full line pressure).



They soon changed it over to a combination valve which is a prportioning valve residual valve and a safety switch all in one.



I don't have a picture of the ASB system with the computer box and wild plumbing that requires speed sensors on each wheel. But it beats the Fred Flinstone sticking your foot through the floor approach.

Big Dave
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, don't worry about the derail, I'm gonna derail my own thread now..kinda.

I posted this same(original) query on a local car bulletin board and the following suggestion was made...

They suggested putting the line lock on the rear brakes instead of the front brakes as it is now. The idea was to pull into the water box, energize the line lock, apply the brakes(only the front since the rears are blocked by the solenoid), do the burnout, ease off the brakes rolling from the water box, de-energize the solenoid to return the rear brakes to service, pre-stage etc.

Anyone here have experience plumbing the line lock this way? I currently have a Biondo(same as Moroso) and they say only use it on the fronts, good for 3000 psi. B&M says front or rear but says it's only good for 400 psi constant pressure(spikes to 1500), Hurst doesn't say anything(instructions not avail online, maybe af2 has access lol). TCI says front or rear, no pressure spec.
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave, your 1969 master cylinder is leaking at the rear seal into the booster. lol
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pro60chevy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disagree with that method of doing a burnout. To answer your question, it is very easy to put the line lock into the rear system, seeing as how there is only one brake line there. Same procedure as the front.
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank You, I was looking for someone I was comfortable knew their stuff to give me an answer.

BTW, if I didn't say it before, congrats on your feature in Drag Racing Action magazine. Oddly it's the only issue of the mag I own and I only bought it because I saw your feature in it.

That wasn't supposed to sound like blatent butt kissing but it kinda does, sorry.

Unless someone has a good pro rear line opinion I'll probably keep the conventional front line configuration.
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pro60chevy
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you. A million years ago when I unstalled my first line lock in a 1927 Ford I built, I screwed up and installed it on the rear brake line. Wasn't very impressive when it came to doing a burnout at the local burger joint. That got changed real quick.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pro60chevy wrote:
I disagree with that method of doing a burnout. To answer your question, it is very easy to put the line lock into the rear system, seeing as how there is only one brake line there. Same procedure as the front.


X2 !
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with it not being in the rear - sounds weird to me. With it in the front, it is basically an electrically operated check valve - still lets fluid flow in the normal direction to apply brakes, it just doesn't let it return until you de-energize. Mine is located between the master and the brake switch / junction block assembly because there is only one line to work with there instead of two after the block. Clay
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2009 10:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that too clay, but Moroso(Biondo) which is the one I have states "flow stopped in both directions". I know there have been times I started to move a little in the water box(generous use of the term at my local track) and I gave 'em a couple more pumps to hold them..down side is it slows wheel speed and builds heat in the shoes, in this situation the "rear line" theory might be of some benefit. But with the 4 piston calipers it probably shouldn't be an issue like with the stockers.
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