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fuel supply
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:00 pm    Post subject: fuel supply Reply with quote

now that the rearend is mostly complete, its time to start putting the fuel cel in and run the lines. im gonna need help building this fuel system. i have a Holley Blue fuel pump, 850 Double Pumper, and will be installing a two stage nitrous system that will eventually be 250 hp total (for the next motor).

i want to do this right the first time. im planning on using 1/2" feed line but what size return ? will the Holley Blue pump keep up ? do i need to run a regulator for the carb and each stage of nitrous or will one work ? OR should i just run a completely separate fuel system for the nitrous with its own pump, lines & regulator(s) ?

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William Jones
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1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are planning to use the full 250hp shot then I suggest a separate system and you will need three regulators one for the carb and 1 for each stage of NOS this lets you tune each stage to its max efficiency you can use one but you will stuck with one pressure for both stages. If you buy a bigger pump then you can run 1 pump but it would probably be better to get another blue for the NOS system. You don't have to run a return line unless you plan on doing a lot of idling like in stop and go traffic. We run an Aeromotive A2000 with number 10 line to the front then Y it into number 8 one to the carb regulator and the other to the NOS regulator and a 8 return line from the pump to the tank (the pump has a built in return). The Mach1 runs the same thing but uses a Mallory 180 with no return and the pump has only overheated once and cut off when I left it on in the staging lanes by accident. We run these set ups on the street and have never had any problems at the track or on the street. We are maxed out on the Mach1 now when we run it with 150hp shot so a upgrade to a bigger pump is in the near future. My belief with fuel delivery is to era on the side of more is better. The A2000 I have in the 95 will be plenty when I step it up to the big block and a 250hp shot thats why I went so big to begin with I hate buying parts twice. Well I hope this helped 10sec Later Bam
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Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
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Last edited by William Jones on Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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wagon train
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1983 Mercury Capri

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will need more than one blue pump and or black.Return not good on holley pumps it is an internal by-pass pump and is not happy that way.

Yes you should run 2 regulators.Fuel pressures are different for carb and nitrous.

Most large volume pumps are flooded suction and have to be lower than the bottom of the tank.

The motors on blue and black pumps are not very good and loose their ability to keep up like when they are new.

There are different ways to do it.This is how I have done a couple systems.
First my race car.#12 from tank to Magna-fuel 500 gph pump,#8 bypass out of pump back to tank,#10 to front of car,Y block,2 # 8's to inlet of holley regulators,# 6 to carb from one reg.# 6 to nos solenoids from another.

Second my friends Nova,stock tank, installed two 1/2" aluminum pickups out of fuel sender to two holley black pumps,#8's to Mallory dual inlet fuel filter, one #10 to front of car,Then the rest like race car.Relays wired up so the engine runs on one pump ,then when nos is armed second pump turns on and system is full pressure and ready to go.This is a 10.25-1 big block,merlin heads,solid roller,dominator carb,150 hp nos also runs on 93 octane for driveability.

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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thumbsup on the 2 systems. I would not recommend any other way to do it.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
thumbsup on the 2 systems. I would not recommend any other way to do it.


I second that!
Damned, WagonTrain works on Chevys!! Very Happy
You have a stout Rouch combo in you're car I have to say!
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GrandSportC3
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1968 Chevrolet Corvette

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 7:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm going the 2 pump route myself.. I have a friend who runs a 7 second tube chassis Vette and he only uses one pump. .However, it's a Aeromotive A2000 pump with #10 line all the way to the engine compartment where he branches off the nitrous to a separate regulator...
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I third that on the two systems. It saves you from having to run such a huge pump all the time on the street among the other benefits everybody else said. If you use the Holley Black / Blues, you have a backup pump anytime the main one breaks down. I have run the Holleys with a return system and didn't have any problems. Clay
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

THANKS!!! two systems it is!!!

couple more concerns though... what do you guys think about using aluminum fuel line ? i know it will crack over time without flex joints and rubber mounting but i think if its installed correctly it should work very well.

second, i will need a return on the system for the motor since it WILL get some time idling on the street Twisted Evil but for the nitrous system, is there any reason to run a return since the system will only be operating when its needed ?

ok, actually three things.... where the hell is Dave ???? i figured he would be all over this with a lengthy post worthy of bathroom reading Laughing

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William Jones
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1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No you dont need a return for the NOS fuel System since it will only be on when you have the system activated.

I think the aluminum fuel line will be ok as long as it is mounted and routed good. I have used it before and haven't had any problems.

Later Bam

_________________
Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
68 Falcon 363ci 10.55@126 N/A
95 GT 363ci 11.08@118 N/A
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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im sure you already know this, but just in case make sure you use a short piece of flexable hose between your tank and your engine at each end and your solid tubing will be fine. Just curious, how much does a Holley Blue and a Black put out? Also if you dont run a return on the nitrous, make sure you set the pressure flowing and not dead headed.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

After running a return style system, I love them for the reason Knarley mentioned - compared to a regulator they have very little if any pressure drop since they are never dead headed and I would run one on the nitrous too if possible. Of course you don't have too, just nice if you can. Clay
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wagon train
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1983 Mercury Capri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Knarley Darley wrote:
Im sure you already know this, but just in case make sure you use a short piece of flexable hose between your tank and your engine at each end and your solid tubing will be fine. Just curious, how much does a Holley Blue and a Black put out? Also if you dont run a return on the nitrous, make sure you set the pressure flowing and not dead headed.



A blue pump is rated at 110 gph
A black is 140 gph.


I don't recommend a by-pass per say,unless you have a pump or pumps with way more volume than you need.On all the cars I work on with Nitrous I put a bleed-return.Only on the Nitrous regulator.

It is a #4 line back to the tank with a smalll nos jet in it ,at the regulator end..020 is mostly what I run.Keeps regulator from deadheading ,but not much volume loss.Always set nos pressing flowing thru solenoid and jet you are going tho run.

You don't need two complete seperate systems just one well planned split system.

I have also run aluminum line.Works well,The only issue with that it is a good heat sink and will work both ways.Hot air or ground cold fuel will pull heat in.Cold air warm fuel will remove it.

_________________
FORD POWER RULES DEATH TO ALL CHEVYS.

"BAKER"
10/5/50-11/7/06

"She doesn't seem to be breathing right,it might be the jets."-The Mechanic
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beersngars
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Location: Ohio
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1948 Chevrolet Coupe

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have not yet messed with NO2, but when I set up my fuel system, it was in the back of my mind. I used an Aeromotive pump #11203 which is rated at over 900 lbs per hour at 18-20 psi. It is desinged for their bypass regulator #13301. According to their tech guy, that set-up would support 900 HP natural. He said if I were to use a 200 shot or less, a single system would do fine. My car is a street car, so should be plenty. As to the aluminum line, I did away with it and went -10 braided hose to the regulator and -8 back to the tank. If you elect two pumps, I would look at the Aeromotve stuff. It delivers at a higher psi than the Holley pumps and is only slightly larger. Just my 2 bits.
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2007 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it will most likely come down to cost. i dont exactly have the funds for a $500 fuel pump right now. however, another Holley Blue with line & fittings will still cost $250 and the Aeromotive A100 is $300 and could do it all with just one system.

...........lots to consider Rolling Eyes . thanks for all the input. i atleast have a good idea of what i need.

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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll make your life even easier. What about the new piston style mechanical pump. I think Stewart makes it but I have seen one marketed by Quick Fuel in Jegs. They list for about $250ish and seem to pump a crap load of fuel. I'm thinking about this for my next pump upgrade. I would imagine very reliable and of course it would ramp up output according to engine rpm. Sometimes the aftermarket sucks with so many choices - thought I'd throw out another one Very Happy . Clay
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