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stock GM block, capabilities
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junkyarddog
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1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: stock GM block, capabilities Reply with quote

What you think HP limitations is on forced induction (centrifugal supercharger-Procharged) on stock GM 350 .030 block with 3.75" stroke (383). I am building Procharger motor that will sometimes be ran with 20-22lbs of boost, but most of time about 14-16lbs. Should make about 750-900 horses on pump gas with safe boost level. I just want to be sure a GM block won't go kaboom, if the risk is there no sense in wasting money on one, just get Dart or something. This is budget project so if I can use GM block I will.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: stock GM block, capabilities Reply with quote

junkyarddog wrote:
What you think HP limitations is on forced induction (centrifugal supercharger-Procharged) on stock GM 350 .030 block with 3.75" stroke (383). I am building Procharger motor that will sometimes be ran with 20-22lbs of boost, but most of time about 14-16lbs. Should make about 750-900 horses on pump gas with safe boost level. I just want to be sure a GM block won't go kaboom, if the risk is there no sense in wasting money on one, just get Dart or something. This is budget project so if I can use GM block I will.


Concrete and alcohol will work. There is a guy running a total POS 355 with that mix running 7.30s in a rail 1400 lbs. He hasn't changed because his Index is 7.60. I might die before that motor detonates. 42 lbs boost!
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junkyarddog
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1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: fuel Reply with quote

this will be gas, not alcohol..will be driven lot on street
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junkyarddog
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1982 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:07 pm    Post subject: SC Reply with quote

Oh yeah the centrifugal supercharger (bolts on like alternator) will be intercooled also
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clay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am probably around the 700ish mark with a centrifugal and a factory block and I'm going to stop there for now. I think it could be pushed further with better block prep than what I have. A half fill plus a 2 bolt converted to splayed caps should help tremendously. I believe Vizard split a factory block (I'll have to find the book again to be sure) around the 1000 h.p. mark with nitrous. Supposedly the centrifugals aren't as hard on parts as nitrous, so it might be o.k. to push to the 800's or even 900's. I was going to do exactly the fill plus cap mod until I found a deal on a Mowtown block. If you have any questions on the centrifugal setup, let me know. Clay
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junkyarddog
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:47 pm    Post subject: project Reply with quote

I want to run 9's on pump gas but budget is big deal. I know on rods crank pistons there is no sacrificing but the block is where i am looking. If you have block filled to water pump holes how big of oil cooler will you need to make it ok to drive hours upon hours without frying oil?
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clay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How heavy is your car? 9's on a budget isn't out of the question. Mine isn't anything special at all (cast crank even) and I have gone 6.60's in the 1/8th at 3700ish pounds - should be faster now - expecting 6.50's, maybe 6.40's but that's pushing it. I believe around 6.30's in the 1/8th is the crossover point from low 10's to high 9's in the 1/4. I really wouldn't think oil temp would be a huge problem. Here's an idea. Would it be possible to use an external transmission cooler (since a lot of people do anyway) and run the engine oil through the heat exchanger in the radiator. This should keep it at a reasonable temperature without having to worry about overcooling the engine oil. I would think it shoud be able to handle the pressure - that's one problem. The other one is you would have to set up a system that wouldn't direct the entire engine oil flow through the radiator heat exchanger and run the risk of reducing flow and hurting something. I wonder if the factory oil cooler adaptors that sandwich between the block and filter do just that or redirect the entire flow? Things that make you go hmmm.....Clay
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junkyarddog
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: car Reply with quote

'70 Camaro 14 point cage, not tubbed
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clay
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it all steel or some glass? Full interior still in it? All steel and full interior I would guess at least 3500 with driver but probably more. Not being tubbed sucks because you'll be like me and have to squeeze it out of the hole and leave a 0.10 or more on the table due to a smaller tire. Clay
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all Chevy blocks are created equal. A 350 out of a 40 or 50 series truck will have an 020 in the timing chain cover area indicating that it is a high nickel content block (010 is next best but not as strong. They are found in Canada an Mexico because of extremes in heat stress the block so GM makes them a little stronger than stock American junk yard jewels). The 020 truck block will be a four bolt main and will have forged 5140 steel crank and forged rods with pressed pins.

If you look for one of these blocks in the truck salvage yards, you should be able to find one in a mid seventies to early eighties dump truck or school bus. This block is almost as good as a BowTie block but should be able to find one for scrap value. You can then perform all the usual tests (sonic check for core shift, magnaflux for cracks (especially in the lifter gallery area, and all the bottom end webs) as these things have been ridden hard and put away wet till they died from abuse.

Aside from a high nickel content block, or a BowTie GMPP block, the only thing I would use on a three atmosphere engine is an aftermarket Dart Little "M" or a World Products block. The boost levels you are talking about should stress the block at the 1200 to 1500 horse level (or about twice what people usually expect from a small block).


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cutlass389
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:54 pm    Post subject: Block party Reply with quote

This out of my realm (real power) but I believe the rating GM gives its standard small-block block is 550 hp. Probably a little conservative.
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jonny_b
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to add another place to look for those high nickle blocks. They were also used in combines back in the day, so you can check tractor salvage yards for them. I can't remember what Co. used them but they are the high nickel, 4 bolt main, forged steel crank, GM 350's. I have one in my 79 camaro but I'm only putting 450-500 hp through it.
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junkyarddog
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject: car Reply with quote

With me, with Procharger and gear vendor overdrive it should weigh 3800-3900lbs. Only thing that may be fiberglass is cowl hood but seriously doubt it.

As far as tires I want to run in 10.5 classes.

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junkyarddog
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:25 am    Post subject: oh ya Reply with quote

I do own auto salvage so I have good blocks, high nickel blocks
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clay
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you want sounds very similiar to my current setup. Compression is a little high in mine since it wasn't built for supercharging in the first place but you won't have that problem. Which head unit are you looking at? What are your plans for an intercooler? There is some money to be saved in the intercooler department. Are you going blow through or fuel injection? As far as money invested in heads, I run Sportsman II's that I bowl ported. They would probably do what you are talking about with a little more boost (currently 12 lbs.) so don't think you have to spend a ton of money there either. Like you said before, the most money probably does need to be spent in the bottom end. Not necessarily lightweight stuff because the rpm level won't have to be very high, but strong stuff to last because I think I am pushing my luck a little bit with what I have. Clay
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