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two stage question

 
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: two stage question Reply with quote

when the second stage engages, does the first stage turn off or is the second stage supplemental to the first?
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af2 wrote:
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clay
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typically I'm pretty sure they turn off the first stage when using the second stage, but really I don't see why you would have to. As long as you didn't exceed the flow capacity of the plate itself, I don't see that it would hurt anything. It might be better to use a "Y" block to join the solenoids than the "T" that NOS uses if you were going to try it though. Clay
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems to me that adding the second stage on top of the first would work just as well as switching from one to the other. im just curious why no one uses them that way. i wonder if theres tuning issues involved with running both stages simultaneously. wheres Big Dave with his seemingly endless knowledge?
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pro60chevy
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The set-up I had on my 32 which was a 2 stage cheater, was wired to shut off the first stage when the second came on.

The 2 stage I had on the 60 with the small block, which was a Sniper Plate, and a Fogger was set up that way at first, then I changed it to have both on at the same time. I wasn't into the tuning part as much as I am now, which may have lead to the ultimate demise of the poor little thing. The Sniper was a 180 shot, and the fogger was set at 350.

The 2 stage system we have now, in which both are Foggers, when the second stage comes on 3 seconds into the run, the first is on with it. The first stage is a 325 shot, and the second is 400.

Tuning the 2 stage system when one shuts off, is pretty easy, bacause you are still basically running one system.

Tuning it the way we have it now is quite a chore. A 1/4 lb of fuel pressure one way or the other, or a degree of timing one way or the other, makes a huge difference in the way this thing runs. That is the same with any multi stage nitrous system.

When the day comes, and we are comfortable with the 2 stage, we may hook up the 3rd. Then the misery will start all over again.
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks. thats exactly what i wanted to know.
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William Jones
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: 2nd stage Reply with quote

Yeah you can run them at the same time that is what they were made for. But it will depend on your setup if you can only handle say 150 off the line but you want to spray a total of 300. You can do it two ways all 300 on the 2nd stage and turn off the 1st or 150 on each stage. The way to tune it will run the first stage only make a complete pass and read your plugs at the end of the track or get towed back and read them in the pits. Then adjust fuel pressure and timing and make another pass once you got that tuned repeat with the 2nd stage when you have the fuel pressure tuned for both stages take out at least 1 degree of timing for every 50 hp your second stage is going to add to be safe and tune from there all over again this is a long process but it is worth it when you start dealing with alot of nitrous one wrong move and poof you are rebuilding again. Later Bam
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One word of caution. With a 300 hp shot you might not survive the quarter if the tune is off. That bling you see on plugs isn't jewelry but pistons if you run lean (which happens a lot if the fuel system can not deliver the goods).

I have a little 75 horse cheater in the air filter (easy to spot if the hood were raised), and a 250 horse big time cheat fogger plumbed below the intake manifold. That way I can always hand them my five pound bottle that is empty and keep my twin fifteens in the trunk.


Big Dave
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96capriceMGR
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMO with as cheap and easy as wideband O2s are these days it would be foolish to tune by reading sparkplugs alone. MUCH cheaper than the consequences of running lean and helps you get the most out of the system.
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

96capriceMGR wrote:
IMO with as cheap and easy as wideband O2s are these days it would be foolish to tune by reading sparkplugs alone. MUCH cheaper than the consequences of running lean and helps you get the most out of the system.


i agree. the technology is available. might even consider using a knock sensor or two. you should be able to supply it with 5v and monitor the voltage with a recording device so you dont have to watch it constantly. i dont know of any systems available that will do that but i dont think it would be too difficult to build.

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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Autometer makes a stand alone unit that lights up a led when it detects engine knocking. It has a variable resistor to adjust sensitivity.
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10sec.et
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave wrote:
Autometer makes a stand alone unit that lights up a led when it detects engine knocking. It has a variable resistor to adjust sensitivity.


yeah, but i dont think it has the ability to record. you have to be watching it when knock occurs. i guess im spoiled by recording scan tools that will take a "movie" and show everything that happened during a specific time period. if you only have knock for a brief second then you may not notice it. maybe im just analretentive.

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98ram360
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:10 am    Post subject: O2 sensor regulated N2O cut off switch Reply with quote

http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=67
Pretty sweet huh? This is better than a low fuel switch. Twisted Evil
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: O2 sensor regulated N2O cut off switch Reply with quote

98ram360 wrote:
http://www.dynotunenitrous.com/store/scripts/prodView.asp?idproduct=67
Pretty sweet huh? This is better than a low fuel switch. Twisted Evil


Cheers i gotta get me one of those Driving

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clay
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Innovate could record the knock sensor triggering (as many other setup's I'm sure). A circut can be set up pretty easily to log nitrous / fuel solenoid triggering as an input. If the knock sensor turns on a l.e.d., then you could tap in to that voltage signal and log it in a similiar manner. Just a thought. I like the a.f.r. shutdown - pretty cool. Clay
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10sec.et
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2006 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
The Innovate could record the knock sensor triggering (as many other setup's I'm sure). A circut can be set up pretty easily to log nitrous / fuel solenoid triggering as an input. If the knock sensor turns on a l.e.d., then you could tap in to that voltage signal and log it in a similiar manner. Just a thought. I like the a.f.r. shutdown - pretty cool. Clay


sounds like a plan Twisted Evil

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