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Test and tune night gone bad
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William Jones
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 826
Location: Lake city, FL
28638.90 points


1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 10:10 am    Post subject: Test and tune night gone bad Reply with quote

Well it started out good when we got my buddies 93 notch to run 12.21@115 spinning the tires with the motor we just built 2 weeks ago with spare Cleveland parts I had laying around he spent about $2000 carburator to converter not a bad investment. Once he was up and running I pulled my 95Gt off the trailer and made a couple passes on the juice 10.66 and a 10.91 low bottle. Changed bottles went back for another run and bam in the top of 3rd gear the car started missing going out the back door. Got it back the the trailer and discovered a retainer shattered and I bent a valve still ran 10.77 on that pass. This is my fault because I new the valve train was getting old and needed to be changed but I kept running the dog crap out of it. So the motor comes out this weekend and I have to figure out what motor I am going to put in it big block or back to the small block. If the head is trashed it will be the big block just going to cost alot more to go that route. Well thought I would fill you in on my misfortunes. Later Bam
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Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
68 Falcon 363ci 10.55@126 N/A
95 GT 363ci 11.08@118 N/A
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87calais
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 206

5692.14 points



PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, think of it this way... trashed engine =blessing in disguise..... Rolling Eyes
Though I'm sorry to hear about it... Good times though

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88 SS Monte Carlo, nowhere near stock
'04 Silverado =)
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71842.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That sucks big time!!!!!! I hope the damage is minimal to say the least. As soon as I get a handle on the trans I will be there.
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artinla
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 233

8558.30 points


1971 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope the head isn't trashed! Got my fingers crossed for ya.

Art
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2662
Location: Tampa Florida
120504.72 points



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hope the head is OK, and collateral damage is minimal.

I don't know how often you change your springs, but I swap mine out every 150 runs (165 if feeling lucky and have been keeping RPM's down). The harmonics turns them to Jello if left longer than that. I also check the pressures every 25 runs or so while still on the heads with a hand held spring checker (TD I think makes it) and it has saved by behind a couple of times finding cracked but not yet broken springs. I would recommend getting one.


Big Dave
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William Jones
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 826
Location: Lake city, FL
28638.90 points


1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 6:33 am    Post subject: update Reply with quote

Well got the motor apart while I was on leave. The good news is the head is salvagable but the piston is garbage. Thanks for the advice on the spring tester I think I will have to pick one up. That motor probably had 500 passes on it and the springs finally gave up the whole valve train is really worn rocker arms included. So since the heads are good I can go a head and bump the compression way up put a mechanical roller and add more NOS Twisted Evil. But first I will buy the 302R block since I was suprised the production 5.0L block has lasted this long. On a side note since Dave suggested it I checked the springs on the Mach1 and they were all down 30 to 40lbs on the seat and around 60 on the open so I changed those before I had something go wrong with that motor. I had been having so much fun with them that I forgot about that little thing called preventive maint. Lesson learned later Bam
_________________
Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
68 Falcon 363ci 10.55@126 N/A
95 GT 363ci 11.08@118 N/A
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SMOKEmUP
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Joined: 30 May 2002
Posts: 3171

65149.84 points


1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where these single or dual springs? How much lift were you running? How many passes did you have on them?

You guys have me thinking about checking the valves springs periodically on my LS1. Due to the restricted area I'm not sure if I can check the springs easily.
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William Jones
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 826
Location: Lake city, FL
28638.90 points


1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:19 am    Post subject: springs Reply with quote

They were dual spring comp cam springs. I run 589int/609exh of lift and turn the the motor to 6300rpm going through the lights. I had at least 500+ passes and one broken inner spring when I changed them. On the other motor I had alot more miles and about 450 passes with the cam lift being 544. None of the springs broke but the retainer failed from the valve float. If you can check them can't hurt. Later Bam
_________________
Take the horse out off the barn and let her RUN BABY RUN!!!!!

92 LX 454ci Clevor 9.24@142.53 N/A
71 Mach1 454ci Clevor 10.16@134 N/A 3850lbs race weight "Lost in fire"
03 Cobra Bone stock 12.42
68 Falcon 363ci 10.55@126 N/A
95 GT 363ci 11.08@118 N/A
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2662
Location: Tampa Florida
120504.72 points



PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it has no bearing on this issue but as a warning to the younger guys just getting started and at the bottom of the learning curve. It never fails to amaze me the number of times I go through a swap meet and see racers selling used valve springs on the cheap to people walking by.

I would watch the young guys pick them up and try and compress them in their hands and say to their friends "Yup still good" and pay $25 for a box of scrap that are not good for anything, just because some racer said "They worked on my car when I took them off".

I can only tell you guys to ask that swell guy next time "If they're so good; why did you take them off?". I trash all of mine, but they are 1.625" diameter so most small blocks can not hurt themselves with them anyway if they were to pick them up.

Big Dave
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71842.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave wrote:
I know it has no bearing on this issue but as a warning to the younger guys just getting started and at the bottom of the learning curve. It never fails to amaze me the number of times I go through a swap meet and see racers selling used valve springs on the cheap to people walking by.

I would watch the young guys pick them up and try and compress them in their hands and say to their friends "Yup still good" and pay $25 for a box of scrap that are not good for anything, just because some racer said "They worked on my car when I took them off".

I can only tell you guys to ask that swell guy next time "If they're so good; why did you take them off?". I trash all of mine, but they are 1.625" diameter so most small blocks can not hurt themselves with them anyway if they were to pick them up.

Big Dave



Better yet, look on Ebay and see the valve springs with only one 500 mile race on them. Times 4= 2000 1/4 mile passes Evil or Very Mad And people are buying this CRAP amazing!
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artinla
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 233

8558.30 points


1971 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330008784018&ssPageName=MERC_VIC_ReBay_Pr4_PcY_BIN_IT

Those retainers and locks are virtually bulletproof.

I can vouch that they are top notch, they are a virtual copy of Cranes. He sells many different sizes and configurations, I just guessed what you might be looking for.

Art
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71842.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art, these are the type of springs I was talking about.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NASCAR-PSI-RACING-SB2-2-VALVE-SPRINGS-184-1-950-1-520_W0QQitemZ140011357114QQihZ004QQcategoryZ33617QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The stuff you were looking at is a great deal. Always make sure it's new!
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artinla
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Joined: 09 May 2006
Posts: 233

8558.30 points


1971 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would never buy used springs. I only pointed out the retainer deal because he evidently needs some. Big Dave is on the money with his advice.

That auction for the springs is a total ripoff. Unfortunately the guy probably believes that crap he is spewing and somebody will buy them eventually.
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5578
Location: grassvalley, ca
71842.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

artinla wrote:
I would never buy used springs. I only pointed out the retainer deal because he evidently needs some. Big Dave is on the money with his advice.

That auction for the springs is a total ripoff. Unfortunately the guy probably believes that crap he is spewing and somebody will buy them eventually.


Art, I saw that and said it was a good deal. There are fewer people on Ebay selling their junk springs. That is until Nascar is finished for the Winter, Look out then! You will find a whole bunch of crap for sale. The only good things I have come across is the sb2.2 heads. One of these days I will buy a set and install all new parts and make 2 HP per inch without nitrous or force fed. Don't get me wrong force fed is the best if you can afford the maintenance.
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3483
Location: Houston,Texas
347040.52 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the first thing i ask myself when tempted to buy or use used parts is"whats it gonna cost to repair the damage when these parts fail?" somehow the savings is never worth sacrificing a $6000+ motor.
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It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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