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383 stroker overheating!!!!
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Cooleys66
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Joined: 06 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 10:21 pm    Post subject: 383 stroker overheating!!!! Reply with quote

I have a 383 stroker motor in a 66 chevelle. A brand new griffin 2 core aluminum radiator, a brand new "16 inch procomp 2750 cfm electric
puller fan, no thermostat and a standard flow gm waterpump. When i cruise the streets in 85 degree heat with high humidity and while i go down the road it will heat to 195 or so. stop at a light or even pull in a parking lot to watch the temp, it will climb to about 205 while i sit there.
When i pull out again and go cruise or do stop and go driving, instead of going down to 195 again it goes to 215-220. Do u think i need a high flow water pump or some type of thermostat . Any help is more than welcome. Thanx
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SMOKEmUP
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Joined: 30 May 2002
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Fri Jul 07, 2006 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try putting a thermostat in there.

Sounds like you have the bases covered, just double check everything.

Also double check the ignition timing, and the air fuel at idle. Too lean and too much advance will make the motor run hot.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know there is no reason for this, but personally I have not had good luck with trying to run an electric fan. I know thousands of people do it and I should be able to, but mine acts sort of like yours when I try. I have basically the same setup as yours with a mechanical flex -a - lite fan and shroud (383, Griffin 2 core, Flowcooler pump - basically stock pump with plate on back of impeller, and thermostat). Not saying you should do this because the electric you have should be good, just sort of a last resort idea because I can't think of anything else right now. Clay
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cutlass389
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1978 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.02 cents worth. I'm a firm believer in shrouds for efficient air draw through the radiator. Even with a 'lectric, a shroud will force all the fans work to be utilized. Check the timing and a/f like Smoke said.
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jonny_b
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put in a Thermostat!! By not having a thermostat in place you are flowing too much water through the radiator. This causes the coolant to not spend enought time in the core to dissapate any heat, which COULD be the cause of your overheating.

Additionally the restriction caused by the thermostat helps to create more coolant pressure in the block which will help keep the coolant from boiling.

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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the engine runs cool cruising then the radiator and lack of a thermostat are not to blame. The air flow generated by 40 + mph is sufficient to cool your vehicle.

Now to simulate the that air flow you need a big honkin' electric motor to spin a fan comparable to the seven bladed thermostatically controlled mechanical fan the GM used WITH A FAN SHROUD. Without a shroud you throw away at least a third of your fan's diameter which isn't that much to start with compared to a stock fan (air is flung off the end of the blade by centripetal force).

I personally rely upon a mechanical fan because I know that the big orange (in the case of hot rod Chevy's) lump of cast iron behind the fan generates a lot more torque and horse power than any electric motor I can ever hope to fasten to my radiator core support with a couple of sheet metal screws. I value that lump of cast iron much more than I do some other person's opinion on how cool it looks to have 'lectric fans.

Sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings on this but if you check the archives on cooling problems you will note a one to one correspondence with problems and electric fans.

Yes I know the factory has gone to electric fans (multiple) but they also have dedicated wind tunnels (not just shrouds) made out of plastic molded to the slopping hood lines that forced the change to electric in the first place. If the vehicle still sports a vertical large radiator area you will note that the factory still uses a mechanical fan when they have comparable electric fans sitting on the parts shelves.


Big Dave
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you are going electric make sure you get a system that can handle it not just what you think will work. I know there are systems sold that are fan/radiator combo's that are up to the job. I have the Griffin/Dual 11" Spal fan combo similar to a popular one in Summit's catalog. It does the trick. It's expensive but then again the motor costs more to replace. Like Big Dave I too like that chunk of iron and aluminum as is and don't want to replace it.
See link.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=BCI%2D80188&N=400001+304276+115&autoview=sku

If the radiator is what I think it is you could just by the Spal dual 11" fans as I did. It requires some electrical work but it is not that bad if you use some Painless wiring kits they have everything you need pretty much. See garage photos of my radiator/fan setup it is a Griffin dual 1 1/4" tube core radiator.


The Thermostat thing is covered well enough in the previous posts. Put one in....
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With all the basics being covered already...I have a Griffen radiator as well as a high flow waterpump and I was running(was) a 2950 cfm puller with a 2500cfm pusher as a backup and still had similar situation as you so I went back to the mechanical fan to atleast save the elec hassles.
Do you have a hood scoop on the car, and what kind? This is way overlooked when someone has cooling problems at speed. Btw mine only gets hot sitting at traffic lights, runs 170-180 at speed. If you have a hood scoop this is probably your problem. At low speeds your cooling system is allowed to do it's thing fairly unimpeded. At speed, the air coming in the hood scoop is causing pressure on the back side of the radiator that is equal to the air coming in the front, and possibly more because of the restriction of the rad and the mass of the fan. Basically a stalemate, and no positive airflow..the outside flow diverts over the car because there is no room in the engine compartment.
If you need a scoop like I do because the air cleaner sits 3" above the hood then use a pan to seal the carb to the hood and this will keep the scoop air from causing a pressure dam in the engine bay. This seems to be a huge problem with cowl induction style hoods that are open at the rear always. This is where the air is supposed to exit the compartment and now there is pressur there to stop it.
Hope this helps.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really didn't want to be a post Hog? Did I hear Tstat mentioned a couple of times? Why do different racers use either tstats or washers to control the amount of coolant going through the radiator? Because as other posters said it allows the coolant to cool in the radiator instead of the block. As you know it will not cool in the block but keep getting hotter. You know whats funny guys, I have yet to see another post from the original. We are trying to help someone that hasn't even said a thing!
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

T_stat thing.
It actually gives the coolant dwell time to absorb heat from the block when it is held up by a T-stat or washer. Kind of the opposite of Adam's thought but either way you need it or it will overheat. This is I believe in Smokey Yunick's book.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
T_stat thing.
It actually gives the coolant dwell time to absorb heat from the block when it is held up by a T-stat or washer. Kind of the opposite of Adam's thought but either way you need it or it will overheat. This is I believe in Smokey Yunick's book.


Paul, I can see why. You will hold water in the block longer to absorb the heat then let it through the radiator at a controlled speed to cool it. With out a restrictor it can't work. By the way Paul there was no thought behind my first post I was trying to be a Whore! Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok Laughing
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rcdowns
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Joined: 26 Jun 2003
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Location: San Diego, Ca
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a great thread covering cooling. There is one more item I don't think I heard mentioned and that is pulley ratio. I had a 454 camaro in the past that would overheat as originally described. It had all the best goodies that were available in the 70's - big 4 core radiator, clutch fan with shroud, 160 deg thermostat, etc. and it would overheat at idle on a hot day. I changed pulleys to spin the water pump faster and like magic the problem was over. (I had been underdriving because the car would throw belts)
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Aerosmith
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Location: Ohio
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I underdrive to reduce belt throwing, 25% at the crank. I designed and built an idler pulley to control the 'whip' of the alternator belt after it leaves the crank on it's way to the alt. Been considering making a few to sell.
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96capriceMGR
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I vote for shrouds.
Despite Dave's believe otherwise there are vehicles with room for mechanical that get electric simply because they do work, they free up power and economy as well as make for a quieter vehicle. Wether you care about any of that is another matter. The LT1 b-body guys almost never have a cooling problem and a lot of them actually reduce coolant flow by going to electric pumps. We have a larger aluminum core radiator stock with dual fans, the fans have a ring around them that acts as the shroud. We can not play with mechanical pump drive speed due to an odd timing set driven setup. There are a lot of us pushing 450-500+ hp NA out of 350-396 10-12:1 compression with no cooling issues on stock systems. The computer shuts off the fans at cruise speeds so it does not impede airflow. An airdam under the radiator to create low pressure behind it and force air through the radiator is another important aspect to cooling.

My car is approaching 400rwhp through an automatic 11.5:1 compression on a little 350, I run a stat 20degrees cooler than stock that is the only cooling "upgrade" I have done, current waterpump is a $36 reman from Advance Auto.
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