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Motor heats up, power is cut
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

87IrocTim wrote:




im nto sure how this is going to look, but i am going to be painting it. so far i welded the sides on it, and shortened the neck that sits on the carb. i still have to weld a top to it cut to the same shape. as for the holes im cutting in the two fornt sides, im going to take two 3 inch exhaust tubing pieces about 5 inches long, and smush jsut one end of each pipe into an oval, one pipe fore each side. i will then cut out an equaly sized oval fron the side of the air cleaner, and weld the tubes to it. i will slightly bend the tubes so they both face down a little, and stick two cheap cone filters on the ends. also will be painting it jsut so it doesnt look too trashy. once thats done, ill have plenty of time to figure out how im going to set up something really nice for it. my old man was talking about making a tray, that a flat k&n filter sits on top of it, and has little clips on each side to hold it down. along wiht that, we would be cutting out a small portion of metal from under the black louvers so air can get through. the only catch to this is fair weather only, which we are currently thinking about solving also.
i like it. when all else fails, start fabricating. thumbsup
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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artinla
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1971 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it too. Nice work with that thin metal. I would make sure that the filters are the biggest that you can possibly stuff in there, even if that means running flexible ductwork up to the front somewhere.

Quote:
"How about both??"

I agree.. If it were mine I would block both.

And as I said before, get rid of that rear hood seal and verify the air dam if you really want to cool down the engine compartment. Like the guy above said, consider the T-Top/fume issue if you have them.

I had an 87 T/A and it was a nightmare of heat under the hood until I realized that the air dam had gotten worn down to about half length. I put a new one and the engine bay temp dropped by 40 degrees.

Good luck
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Man I hate to hear you say your gonna cut up that hood. The louvers alone bring over $100 on ebay and a complete hood can bring $300. My '82 has the flat hood so I had no problem cutting it, but my '85 z28 hood will never get cut.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it was really just an idea, still trying to figure what we r going to di with the intake, might jsut have to spend the money on that thing that holley makes, that has the two square filters on the side.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok well i got the top on today and here it is so far. still havent grinded all the welds and edges smooth, but will be making it look clean later, as of now its still in construction mode.




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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why not try a carb hat setup and then run tubing to a cone type filter like I suggested previously.

Something like this but without the blower.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put the new intake manifold gaskets in. no more power loss. dont get the idea that i free rev the shit out of my car, but if i floor it off idle, it takes less then a second to reach 5000rpm, and that was when it was warmed up conderably. the manifold obviously gets warm, but i could hold my hand on it for like 5 seconds before it hurt. power is back, and it revs very fast.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Blow-Through-Carb-or-Throttle-Body-Hat-Turbo-Bonnet_W0QQitemZ8068662878QQcategoryZ33742QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting

hey i jsut found this right here. looks pretty neat, after i get my check friday im definitely going to get it. its 2.5 inches tall, which is exactly what i can fit. along wiht that im going to have ot run two tubes somewhere, not too concerned where yet, and stick two cone filters on the end. the two holes are 2 inches diameter each. is that plenty of breathing room?

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artinla
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1971 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That ebay setup will definitely hurt your top end if you don't use forced induction with it.

Dual 3 inch pipe would be the smallest that I would consider for non-turbo/blower use. Squashing one end like you intended won't really hurt you. I think that the one you are building would perform better.

BTW, is that TIG or MIG welding? Just curious.
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kinda agree with artinla. The inlet area is not that big on that hat, but it would look okay. If it were made with something like 2.5"X4" oval inlets it would be really in the ball park. I would try what you have started fabbing first and see how it goes. you might even think about looking around for a third gen tpi air intake with the 2 flat panel filters, k&n makes high flow filters for them and you know it will fit on the car. The plenum box you are making would basically replace the upper manifold plenum, just run a flex hose down to the filters.
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Given the area of a 750 cfm carb at 9.62". The hat has a total area of 12.566" opening with the 2-2" inlets. Looks good to me.
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
Given the area of a 750 cfm carb at 9.62". The hat has a total area of 12.566" opening with the 2-2" inlets. Looks good to me.

I agree with af2. Area will indicate air flow potential.

The other thing to consider is transitions where the air turns, abrupt turns create restrictions resulting in reduced volumetric efficiency. The picture I posted is a procharger carb hat which to me looks like it has a nice transition and should flow plenty.
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87IrocTim
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those are mig welds. i could continue fabbing but i dont think it would look as neat as this setup. the tubes i would have runinng off it would be as short and straight as possible also, and the largest cone filters that fit that diameter pipe that i can find. smokem up im sure the one you posted will breathe a lot better, but the ones im finding are atleast 3 inches tall, i need under 3 inches. Plus they are a little pricey.
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artinla
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2006 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like Smokemup said, sometimes flow potential isn't solely related to area. First, I don't think anyone here would dare to run a 1/2" tall air filter, even though the surface area would be well over 12 square inches. Why? because the angle of entry would be so abrupt that flow would be substantially reduced. Also, you never EVER want to have any restriction at all on the inlet side of the carb, because of the way that carbs work. Even a slight change in pressure on the inlet side results in a large movement in booster signal.

The hat that you are looking at on EBAY is too small in diameter and the inlet pipes are also too small. The flow potential is very poor due to the sharp turn that the air would have to make to get into the carb. The turbulence would be incredible, largely because of the angle that the tubes are mounted at. If they had designed it in such a way as to create swirl or something, it would be better but as is I say it would be a restriction that you don't want. I think that the larger diameter device that you are working on, coupled with the larger and flatter inlets would flow far better.
Good job btw with the mig on that thin metal.

FWIW, I had a 87 T/A that faced the same problem. I ended up using a large PVC pipe cap to fashion a nice looking hat that worked well. If your hat doesn't work, you might consider that. Mine had pvc inlets with one in front that faced the drivers side, and one on the back that faced the passenger side. I used a heat gun to get the inlet pipes very hot so that I could shape them to fit the hat openings. The result was a swirling intake stream that seemed to flow really well. My flowbench was nothing more than a big shop vac and a digital flowmeter, but there was a big improvement over one that I made that only had one large flattened inlet. Using a thread in the flow path, it became apparent that the problem was the air bouncing back off of the rear of the hat and impeding the incoming air. The swirling setup was my attempt to fix that.


Good luck
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Aerosmith
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dang Tim, just buy yourself a 6" tall outlaw cowl hood and solve all your problems at one time! just kidding, I hate those things on 3rd gens. I'm working on a custom fiberglass hood scoop for my Camaro, just on the subtle side of the Corvette Summer Corvette hood scoop....You have seen Corvette Summer haven't you?!
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af2
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with art and Smoke. I bought 2 of these air intakes for my motor to get the swirl and have a 3.5" opening that has almost 2 times the area as my carbs. The only problem is they stand 4" above the carbs wich might not work for you.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CHEVY-BLAZER-5-7L-4-3L-5-0L-88-89-90-91-AIR-INTAKE-KIT_W0QQitemZ8068866637QQcategoryZ38634QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
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