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Aftermarket EFI, my humble opinions
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Running a PC isn't a good idea. It would have to reside in the car in a less than nice environment. Not sure I agree with that thinking. PC or laptop to interface is fine to the ECU which is built for a car environment. The interface is real time and once tuned you don't need the laptop in the car. Even better the HP EFI can be left in learn mode with a low compensation per cell limit which works mint. Low compensation limits allow the car to tune itself but in the event of a sensor failure won't go off into the dirt.

On a completely different topic. I noticed all my pics of stuff have been blocked by photobucket. Now they want $399/yr to 3rd party host them? They can F OFF!!!! finger Bull Sh!t retard Crap thumbsdown smoking

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:


On a completely different topic. I noticed all my pics of stuff have been blocked by photobucket. Now they want $399/yr to 3rd party host them? They can F OFF!!!! finger Bull Sh!t retard Crap thumbsdown smoking


I ran out of room on my Photobucket account about three years back. I went to a Plus account back then for $19.99 a year. That same disc space now costs $59.99 a year. Everyone on all of the other boards have taken Paul's course of action and canceled their accounts and deleted all of their photos. I suspect one of two things will happen. Either Photobucket will roll prices back to $19.99 for a plus account, or go out of business. Or the other free hosting sites will jump on the "stick it to the user" band wagon and charge a similar amount.

I will retain my Plus account (even though they are charging three times the price) for a while since I have several thousands of images spread over five boards for the past ten years that I don't want to update. Some boards are offering to host the images on their servers, but as I pointed out they had limited storage on their servers previously to speed up access, and keep costs of storage down. That hasn't changed.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not sure what you mean by PC.... you referring to a tower? if so, the issue the is the power supply. there have been instances where a computer plugged in to 110vac hooked up to a PCM running on 12vdc had a bit of a dispute... it fries stuff. the laptops work much friendlier in this situation. however, not all systems are tuneable with a laptop. some require the provided handheld device. HP Tuners and EFI Live use software on the laptop. the Holley system works both ways. i dont like the hand held units. they typically give you ABC options where, with the laptop, you have the full spectrum.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i hear a lot of fuss about photobucket lately. mine still works just fine Confused
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2646
Location: Tampa Florida
119973.02 points



PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
not sure what you mean by PC.... you referring to a tower? if so, the issue the is the power supply. there have been instances where a computer plugged in to 110vac hooked up to a PCM running on 12vdc had a bit of a dispute... it fries stuff. the laptops work much friendlier in this situation. however, not all systems are tuneable with a laptop. some require the provided handheld device. HP Tuners and EFI Live use software on the laptop. the Holley system works both ways. i dont like the hand held units. they typically give you ABC options where, with the laptop, you have the full spectrum.


I used to Keep a 386 powered Toshiba lap top in my glove box to control my 4L80e transmission. It ran DOS software from TCI through the serial port in the computer. The laptop was powered by an invertor that was wired into the 12 volt circuits to power a transformed rectifier that out put 5 volt DC for the laptop to run on. It was part of the car. I also had a switch on the dash that allowed it to switch between two pre set programs that controlled how hard the tranny shifted and the shift points.

I think that a laptop is robust enough to survive riding around in a car. It would be better with a digital memory as opposed to a hard drive (like used in an i-Pad) but a Pentium based or better chip set laptop can be bought used for a hundred bucks.

The real restriction as I see it is the data bus between the sensors and the engine. You need speed (megaHz), and a wide enough path to transmit the data quickly. All of the sensors are serial devices (one wire in and out) so a serial port should be able to keep up if the refresh rate is high enough.

I mention all of this only to reduce cost and increase flexibility in control.

Big Dave
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The sensors are not running on serial but CANBUS which has been used for quite some time in the automotive OEM and aftermarket. The power of the most basic processors these days for ECUs is more than adequate to keep up with high sampling rates. The laptop in at least the HP EFI system is really an interface only. The ECU data logs internally or externally so you could set it up to datalog, unplug the laptop, go for a ride and then connect up and download it off the ECU later. I really don't see any advantage to a cheap Laptop substituting for the ECU these days.
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FiTech.... just came across this system. its a lot like the MSD Atomic EFI. its TBI.

first of all, i have to say im disappointed... but not exactly why you would think. i have one in the shop. we didnt install it. its on a new customers car. it ran ok but needed tuning. we had other more important issues to tackle first.

well, last week, the FiTech system decided it was top priority. the car came in not running. customer complaint was that it just died. tried "clear flood" and it would start but dumping a sh!t load of fuel.

did all the basic diagnostics and had to call tech support. they are pretty damn good at tech support. hold time is minimal and the techs actually know what they are doing. anyway, we did a firmware update and reset the base calibration.

starting over from scratch, the setup was simple and straight forward. pretty well designed software, IMO. once that was done and i had the car running again, tuning was simple too. not a lot of adjustments to make but these systems aren't supposed to have an overwhelming amount of tables that the average car guy can get lost in. seems they have everything you need and nothing you don't. so far, im liking it.

do some test driving and a bit more fine tuning and this car runs GREAT! i drive the hell out of this thing for three days. just before im ready to release it to the customer, it goes to sh!t again...... suddenly dies while idling and is stupid rich.... dumping fuel just like before.

i did as much diagnostics as i can and have it narrowed down to what i believe is a bad MAP sensor. unfortunately, this is as far as i can go. while hunting for the MAP, i pulled the front plate off of the Tbody. this is where the computer is. i couldn't really get in there but i could see enough that it appears to be solid state with a lot of integrated components. the MAP sensor being one of them. theres no way for me to test it or replace it without sending the entire Tbody back for them to work on it.

this system definitely has potential. i really hope they get the bugs worked out. i would like to see the sensors removed from the computer. i get the effort at making a compact system but no one wants to change a computer/Tbody because of a simple sensor failure.

btw, this is the second one of these systems we've had in the shop. the first one i didn't get to mess with. the customer was frustrated when he dropped it off and wanted it changed. im still not ready to throw rocks. i think its quite capable in most mild street rods.

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
Member


Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2404
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81616.60 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Keith,
I haven't heard to many good things but some bad non-specific complaints about FI-Tech. Sounds to me like they may have located the map sensor without considering that the line or feed to it needs to be trapped like a drain. I know my HP EFI Map is pointing down with a line leading down to the vacuum port. If this is integrated it might be getting flooded with fuel thus failing. Of course this is a guess from 10000 feet since I haven't seen one up close. Does sound like a POS if in fact that is the problem. Let me know what they say or what is done with it.
Paul

_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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