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trying to get to 5.0
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

should be around 1400HP Burn Out
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Big Dave
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Location: Tampa Florida
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you are building a Pro Stock motor for last year. Aluminum block? Seriously! That is a lot of cash to save 140 to 155 pounds off the cars total weight (I have hole sawed that much weight out of a full sized door car and it only cost about $50 for a paper bag full of cheap Chinese hole saws in different diameters). You are also going to loose 60 to 85 horsepower that an iron block would have made.

I have forgotten what this is going into but 150 pounds of ballast properly placed may help more than the lost horsepower. If you look at Greg Anderson's new ride he has close to 45 pounds of lead bolted on the front bumper (don't you love the new rules about leaving the hood off the car).

Big Dave
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well dave, im not a builder. i just install it, tune it, and make the car go down the track. Laughing

its my understanding that we have reached our power limits with a conventional headed iron block. i dont have a lot of specs on the new build. its got some crazy stuff in it...... 1" diameter lifters, 1/2" & 9/16" diameter pushrods, .996 lift cam, 1000 lbs spring pressure over the nose, shaft rockers that cost more than my mortgage payment......

we're tired of chasing down the index against these blown altereds. time to let them do some chasing Wink

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Big Dave
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Location: Tampa Florida
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
well dave, im not a builder. i just install it, tune it, and make the car go down the track. Laughing

its my understanding that we have reached our power limits with a conventional headed iron block. i dont have a lot of specs on the new build. its got some crazy stuff in it...... 1" diameter lifters, 1/2" & 9/16" diameter pushrods, .996 lift cam, 1000 lbs spring pressure over the nose, shaft rockers that cost more than my mortgage payment......

we're tired of chasing down the index against these blown altereds. time to let them do some chasing Wink


Yep! that was all state of the art last year before they went to EFI. Those Manton push rods are that big to prevent bending like a tooth paste. The idiotic spring pressure are required to control the valves at 10,500 to 11,600 RPM depending upon displacement. They should be off set in the cup to one side to get those slightly larger push rods to clear the slightly larger intake ports.

Look like 12 degree heads. Was wondering about valve size as the latest thinking (though I have been out of this stuff for a while) is to reduce the intake valve size down and increase the exhaust size even more as even on these exotic heads ($3,600 each head plus another $7,000 to $10,000 to get them properly ported) the BBC still needs all the help it can get to get exhaust gasses out. Problem of course is the guides are placed to allow room for those as large as they can make them intake valves, so you really have to start over with a new set of heads to experiment with valve size and placement.

I can not under stand what has happened to the Hemi. It had an inherently better head from the get go. Of course you can not reduce valve angle for a straighter shot when it is sitting in a spherical chamber to start with. But you can get the valves to be about equal in size if you wanted; though the exhaust on a hemi like the intake was pretty much a straight shot.

I can remember the bad ole days when Pro Stock was limited to only a seven liter motor. The BBC didn't stand a chance until they changed the rules which put a SBC in a Vega. Just because of those heads (Developed for the Army air corps. in WWII at government expense. Yup every fighter plane back in WWII ended the war with a Hemi under the hood, except the Rolls-Royce Merlin powered Mustang). Just imagine the German pilots asking as they were chewed to pieces by eight 50 cal machine guns "das Ding bekam einen Hemi?"

Big Dave
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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2403
Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

10sec.et wrote:
looks like we got all we're going to get out of the old motor. time for something with a little more punch....











OHH MYY..... Shocked How many cubic inches?

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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

596. it just went to the dyno earlier this week. it made 1286 with not enough carb, on race gas and crappy headers. ill be building headers when i put it in the car and it will be on alcohol. im pretty confident i can get a little more out of it.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2403
Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice. Have you considered injecting it?
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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

our class is a nostalgia non electronics class. we do have mechanical alcohol injection though.
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I much prefer the appearance of Crower's Fuel Injectors vs. Hilborn. The Crower looks like a steam calliope while it makes it's "Music".

Don't know if there is any difference in power as both are about the same size in terms of throttle bore and the pump and ramp mechanism can be changed to flow more fuel. I have used Crower in the past based solely on their appearance and was very happy.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ours is a Rons setup. i love it. easy to tune and it simply works. not as impressive to look at as stack injection. its just dual throttle bodies. ill get some pics when i get back to work.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Big Dave
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Location: Tampa Florida
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron's Flying Toilet I though it was only a huge TBI but I guess they have a mechanical one. The TBI version works, but it really lacks panache or better stated style.

I'm still scarred skinny of EFI; but I was thinking of (I have to win the lottery first, or become a widower before I can act on it) would be to have a 14-71 blower using a Moon/Potvin crank driven roots blower feeding a 555 BBC with EFI on the intake driven off the front blower. Just for the old school look but still be driveable on the street. Maybe a couple of Flying Toilets instead of Hilborn injectors.

Big Dave
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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 11:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

it has dual throttle bodies and a barrel valve that connects to the throttle. i tune it by changing jets on the return side.

EFI isnt that bad. especially if you're tuning for the track. the hardest part about EFI is always the low speed, cruise and idle driveability. its that weird lean spot on light accel at 55 going uphill that only occurs a split second before the trans kicks down out of lockup that drives you insane retard smoking

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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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10sec.et
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

here's our injection setup.....

yes, i know the barrel valve is way out of adjustment Wink





trying to make a race next weekend. nothing like putting everything together at the last minute. no time to build headers. just modifying what we have to make the last two races this season.





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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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10sec.et
Member


Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 3473
Location: Houston,Texas
346658.74 points


1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

finally got some passes. as usual, no test and tune. went straight to the races. just about everything went wrong. we did get two qualifying passes to figure things out Rolling Eyes . first pass just blew the tires off. called the chassis guy for some advice and made some changes. second pass, SEVERE tire shake! got back to the pits and had several fuel leaks. hell of a violent pass. patched up what we could and hoped no one would notice the rest. got to first round and made the pass.... we lost with a 5.17 to a 5.14. 60 was lazy with a 1.20. thats the fastest ET the car has ever ran and i didnt even get to tune on the engine. just running a base tune i set up in the driveway of the shop. we're pretty pleased with the car. it only gets better from here.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Paul P
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Joined: 15 Aug 2002
Posts: 2403
Location: Townsend, Mass.
81574.74 points


1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Should have some good news soon by the sound of things. Good luck. I am looking at making a pass between now and the end of October but $$ and Time are the things I am up against as always.
_________________
2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
stock cams, bolt-ons and tune
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi

1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
6.86@102.5 MPH 1/8mi
10.78@122 MPH 1/4mi
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