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What killed my engine

 
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Kaizen
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Joined: 05 Jun 2013
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: What killed my engine Reply with quote

I have a ford v6 i took out of my 01 truck that died after 220k miles. I am tearing it down to find what broke to make the banging sound and eventually death. I expected to find metal carnage in the pan or engine but after removing the pan, heads, cylinders, and main caps on the crank I don't find any major damage. All show light scratches in the bearings and some bearings show hazing......i think thats why its called when its not shiney anymore. The only thing i can see wrong is the rings on 3 out of the 6 cylinders are not sprung. in other words they are locked in place with corrosion and/or have worn down. I don't see any significant damage in any of those cylinder walls. would either that or main the bearings having a little play cause metal on metal contact? The noise i heard was definitely heavy metal on heavy metal. Any thoughts?
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Paul P
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Location: Townsend, Mass.
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Junk accessory? Did you start it with all of the belts off just to check it?
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Kaizen
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul P wrote:
Junk accessory? Did you start it with all of the belts off just to check it?


No didnt do that because I am sure the guy with the hammer trying to get out was midway down the block on the lower end. Looking at the timing chain before i tore it down and it looks mint. Are you saying an accessory could kill an engine or maybe the noise was from an accessory?
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af2
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Location: grassvalley, ca
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1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Kaizen"]
Paul P wrote:
or maybe the noise was from an accessory?


Yep
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Skunkworkx
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Joined: 02 Sep 2007
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Location: Harford Co. Maryland
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1968 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 8:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="af2"]
Kaizen wrote:
Paul P wrote:
or maybe the noise was from an accessory?


Yep

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clay
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Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's too late now but you could have done some more trouble shooting while it was still in the truck. I would have pulled the plugs first to see if anything was injested, if nothing there, then drop the oil and cut the filter. If nothing there, then you can most likely keep running it to do some more troubleshooting. I have heard a serpentine belt sound just like a mild rod knock. Don't know how or why but you could put a wrench on the tensioner and take some tension off and the knock would go away. Taking the belts off as previously mentioned is an excellent next step. If it's an automatic, take the converter loose and push it in the transmission and crank it. At this point all you can do is keep looking. Check the flexplate (assuming it's an automatic) for cracks. Check the balancer elastomer. Pulleys loose. Sometimes tracing a noise can be maddening. Those large cast aluminum brackets that so many manufacturers use can magnify and transmit noises and lead you on a wild goose chase sometimes. Post some pictures of some parts and maybe someone can see something. Don't feel bad about the wild goose chase, we've all been on one. Welcome to Smokemup. Clay
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10sec.et
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

im not real familiar with the V6 Fords but the V8s have variable cam timing. that means extra moving parts inside the camshaft sprockets. they will rattle and hammer like the engine is coming apart. you can take the actuators and sprockets apart but you probably wont see much unless its really bad. at this point, your best bet is to search for TSBs based on your symptoms.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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Kaizen
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate all your input. The reason I am pretty sure it was not just an accessory was I took off all including the water pump, ac,ideler, etc and used on new engine. Also used same flexplate. Basically used all bolts and hardware off old engine on new engine with the exception of the fuel rail. I also managed to limp up to my local ford dealer and had a few of their techs come out and all agreed it was a lower interior noise. If you were sitting 3 lanes away in traffic you could have heard this noise.
I have to get a dampener pulley so haven't got crank or cam out yet. Maybe its a lifter? I'll take a look at the sprockets as 10sec suggested.
Could a fuel injector firing late cause a noise like this? I would have thought it would be more like a ping and not a bang.
Or if the rings on multiple cylinders were not sealing the explosive force and the pressure bypassed the cylinder BUT no parts were broken could it force the parts out of tolerance enough to hit?
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Big Dave
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Location: Tampa Florida
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No! Any amount of play like that would hammer out the bearing. Most likely it is in the cam timing chain as stated above.

As to what killed your engine it was 220,000 miles of wear. They are designed to last for only 150,000 miles. If Detroit built motors the way the Germans do with their motors we would be now knee deep in model T-flat head four bangers.

It isn't so much planned obsolesces as it is job security.

Big Dave
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Knarley Darley
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All those Ford v6 engines have a tendency to get exhaust leaks on the pass side manifold, usually they crack, or it is the EGR tube, but a manifold leak is loud, and sounds like a knock. Take a close look at both of them for cracks, or leakage at the flanges. Were any of the bolts loose or broken off at the heads?
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Kaizen
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate everyone's input. I wished I could have done more testing before it died. Every single head bolt was beautiful. Took some muscle to get those off. The exhaust manifolds and all accessories were reused along with the gasket and the noise did not occur again nor were any visibly damaged. I completely tore down the entire engine and did not find any smoking gun. The bearings looked a little scored but not bad. No parts showed visible damage. The cam and crank looked unbelievably clean. All bearings were intact, in place, and seated well. all connecting rods also looked fine. The push rods were all flat when rolled on a piece of glass and the ends were clean. The lifters all looked beautiful after a little wipe down and showed no wear. They are rollers and the wear on them was perfect in the center just like the cam. Even the timing chain was good and tight. The only thing I could not test was the heads/valves and although I don't see any cracks I'm blaming the heads so I can sleep at night. At this point I lubed and put it all away so just wanted to wrap this thread up. I appreciate everyone's time.
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10sec.et
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Location: Houston,Texas
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1969 Oldsmobile Cutlass

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cam actuators are controlled by oil pressure. all it takes is a tiny little oil passage to get clogged and its hammer time. i agree that its in the heads.
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af2 wrote:
It seems we can look at our magical Balls and come up with a fix?

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