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front end help ?????
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That actually sounds about right. I don't have any shims under one of my control arm studs either. You have to do that to try and get camber back in check. I'm guessing he stopped putting caster in it when camber starting getting out of it's range. As has been said previously using factory parts you have to give some on camber to get more caster. I hope you find something. Let us know. Clay
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Paul P
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1971 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
Skunkworkx wrote:

Caster ~~~0.15/0.15
Camber~~ 0.80/1.00
Toe~~ ~~~0.07/0.06

Cross Camber ~~ 0.00
Cross Caster~~ -0.20
Total Toe ~~ 0.13


Paul, if you are saying the caster equals 3* given .15" then the camber would be way off??

Was the toe in or out? If it was "in" you would be buying tires sooner than expected. If "out" it would follow every crease in the road and eat tires also.


Sorry Adam. This is how I came up with this appoximation. The ball joints are approximately 6" apart. With that being said if the upper is .15" behind the lower that is right about 3 degrees. Dia. 6 x Pi 3.14/360= 0.05233333" per degree. Therefore .15" is about 3 degrees. Maybe it is half of that due to it being a 3 degree angle from the center between the ball joints?

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af2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Paul, I see where you got that now... Carry on Embarassed
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clay
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it would be about half or 1.5*. This is how I look at it. Use the distance Paul said for the hypotenuse of a right triangle - 6". Use 0.15" for the short leg. The sine of the angle will be 0.15 / 6. The angle would be 1.4*.



The actual angle isn't really that important, caster to me is strictly for drivability. Camber and toe will wear tires but caster not so much. If it doesn't track like you'd like put some more in it. Clay

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Skunkworkx
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So....what size shim should I put where to try ?

And thanks Very Happy

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clay
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd stick something like 1/8" on the rear upper control arm stud on both sides. Then do a quick toe in check and give it a try. I ran up to the shop and took a quick look at mine. Drivers side had no shims in front and about 5/8" in the rear. Tire is leaning in at top about 3/8". Passenger side has about 1/16" in front and about 3/8" in rear. Tire is leaning in at top about 1/8". All this sound ugly but it drives really well. Down the highway with no hands no pull and not bad to drive at the track. Just try some shims and see what it does, it's cheap and very easy to back out of. Clay
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af2
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I saw the no shims on one side I thought it meant NO SHIMS. Was I not reading correctly??
I do have to use friggen glasses now and it really kills my welds!!! Laughing
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
I think it would be about half or 1.5*. This is how I look at it. Use the distance Paul said for the hypotenuse of a right triangle - 6". Use 0.15" for the short leg. The sine of the angle will be 0.15 / 6. The angle would be 1.4*.



The actual angle isn't really that important, caster to me is strictly for drivability. Camber and toe will wear tires but caster not so much. If it doesn't track like you'd like put some more in it. Clay


Half did make more sense when I thought about it because it was 3 degrees in reference to the center point not the other ball joint. Oh yeah according to Global West the distance is 7" between the ball joints making .15" even smaller caster wise. Embarassed

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Last edited by Paul P on Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:41 am; edited 1 time in total
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The other option is to upgrade the spindles and use the Global West uppers. Spindles off a 77 Camaro that I have are ones recommended. They have 9" distance between the ball joints and are computer weight reduced versions of this knuckle according to Global West. I have had a set laying around for a long time in case I ever want to corner in the car. I know that the old Novas, Camaros and Chevelles shared the same knuckles. Not sure about the control arms but it would make sense that they are the same too.

http://www.globalwest.net/64-72-a-body-front-end.html

Then click on Front upper negative roll control arm kit 4th down on the right side.

Cars that have the spindles/knuckles I am referring to:

Donor cars with tall spindles and 11 inch disc brake rotors:

Buick full size 77-81, Century 73-77, Riviera 77-78, Skylark 75-79, Cadillac Seville 76, Chevy full size 77-81, Camaro 70-81, Chevelle 73-77, Monte Carlo,Nova 75-79, GMC Sprint 73-77, Pontiac full size 77-81, Firebird 70-81, Grand Prix 73-77, Lemans 73-77, Phoenix 77-79, Ventura 75-77, Oldsmobile Cutlass 73-77, Omega 75-79

Donor cars with tall spindles and 12 inch disc brake rotors:

Buick full size: LeSabre wagon/Electra wagon 77-94

Cadillac Fleetwood/Deville 77-84 Brougham/Fleetwood 85-94

Chevy full size: Bel Air/Biscayne/Caprice/Impala 77-96

Olds: 98/Delta88/Delta 88 wagon 77-92

Pontiac full size: Bonneville/Catalina/Grandville 77-86

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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
15.63@87 MPH 1/4mi
1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
6.95@98.6 MPH 1/8mi
10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my knowledge only Cop cars and the 1994-'96 SS got the 12 inch disc brake rotor. All of the big B-body cars have the same height steering knuckles with the only difference being the mounting point for the caliper moving out a half inch. The 12 inch rotor disc brakes where all 5 on 127 mm bolt circle with half inch wheel studs (or the 12 x 1.5 mm metric equivalent of a half inch stud anyway).

All 1975-'79 Novas use the same front end parts as the 1974-'80 Camaros. Before 1974 the Camaro had a lot of variation in the bushing size making different A-arms not fit from year to year.

Big Dave
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Dave,

That list was off of the Global West site. I can't verify it but it should be good to go.

Paul

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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
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1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N.A.
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10.97@121 MPH 1/4mi
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Skunkworkx
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1968 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
When I saw the no shims on one side I thought it meant NO SHIMS. Was I not reading correctly??
I do have to use friggen glasses now and it really kills my welds!!! Laughing


Maybe I worded it wrong....but if I said corner, I think it would have been worse.

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af2
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No , If you said corner I could see that.

Good luck and get some caster and some toe in, in the thing..
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