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Water Pump Racing Modification
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jtb0322
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:16 am    Post subject: Water Pump Racing Modification Reply with quote

I have read somewhere in a magazine, I forget where, that circle track racers have taken the impeller out of the water pump and cut a few fins off of it to reduce drag put on the motor. I cannot find this article anywhere I look now but I know I have read about it. They said that on the track you are typically turning about 4000-6500 rpms and at that speed the water pump is actually pushing to much coolant through the motor. By eliminating some of the fins, this lightens up the stock water pump and reduces drag on the motor? Is this a good idea or not?

Also, does anyone sell a stock appearing ball bearing water pump?

Thanks!!!
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clay
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure what you're asking about the ball bearing pump as all of them have ball bearings - no way they could survive belt tension for that long with anything else. Here in an excerpt from an article mentioning the modified water pump. You might try searching for "sealed engine" or "crate engine" as they have several tips that you might find helpful.

Quote:

The same goes for the coolant flowing between the block and the radiator. This tip isn't useful if you are allowed to use a racing water pump, but if you are using an OEM unit, you are likely pushing too much water through the block a lot faster than necessary. OEM pumps are designed to provide adequate cooling for street cars, which spend 90 percent of their time between idle and 3,000 rpm. Oval track stock cars are high-rpm monsters, and cooling during extended rpm periods at low rpm is not a concern. If you can get your water pump apart, cutting every second vane off the impeller will reduce water flow to more manageable levels-you'll just need to make sure your ducting and overall cooling system works effectively. Also, it's probably best to cut the vanes off on a milling machine. A hack job will unbalance the impeller and lead to power-robbing cavitation.




Here is the link to the article.

http://www.circletrack.com/enginetech/ctrp_0405_legal_crate_motor_performance/viewall.html

I've never messed with modifying pumps - messing with street cars I'm' always interested in as much flow as possible at idle. Hope this helps. Clay

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jtb0322
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link to that article!! I knew I've read about that somewhere! Does anyone have any experience on doing this to a water pump? I'm trying to make the most out of what I have and a few little things like this can make a small improvement. I realize all water pumps have ball bearings so let me restate my question... Does anyone sell a racing quality pump inside of a stock appearing housing? Thanks for the help!

Does anyone have any other little tricks like this to reduce drag/friction on the motor and increase power?
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most racers use a Stewart phase III or higher stage water pump as they move more water than stock pump (which is good) but at one third the horsepower drag of the stock pump (which is even better). It does this by using a CNC machined fully enclosed scroll instead of an open paddle wheel found in the stock pump. The Stewart pump has a larger diameter drive shaft (which requires opening the hole in your water pump pulley to BBC size) which is also used on the Corvette small block motor.

Big Dave
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motorman
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i remove every other fin from the impeller to prevent cavitation on high RPM race car engines
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af2
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

motorman wrote:
i remove every other fin from the impeller to prevent cavitation on high RPM race car engines


So what do you do when it only has 5 impellers? Or 7 for that matter?
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motorman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
motorman wrote:
i remove every other fin from the impeller to prevent cavitation on high RPM race car engines


So what do you do when it only has 5 impellers? Or 7 for that matter?
never saw that on a BBC water pump
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
motorman wrote:
i remove every other fin from the impeller to prevent cavitation on high RPM race car engines


So what do you do when it only has 5 impellers? Or 7 for that matter?


Not that it matters but this is what you would do.

If you have 7 that is easy take out 3 in a triangle.

If you have 5 you are kind of screwed. Smile

Neither would work all that well. Get a pump designed for what you want like the Stewart. As previously mentioned earlier. I have the Edelbrock I know Smoke is not a big fan but I have had good luck with it. I'm not that concerned about the amount of power it takes to turn it. Good luck I think you have enough information here to make a good choice for your application. thumbsup

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motorman
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cavitation at high RPMs is the reason because a pump designed to cool a engine at 2000/3000 RPMs cavitates at 7500 RPMS unless it is modified. now days there are after market race pumps but years ago they were not available so as a engine builder you did what you had to do to cool the race engine
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like one of those plate kits that can be riveted to the impeller to help cavitation. Yup I agree there are purpose built pumps that have a greater rpm range and don't cavitate.
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motorman
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

those plates are used on stamped steel impellers that late model water pumps use and i was modifying cast iron impellers
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I remember way back that the plates were for the older cast impellers to make them efficient like the newer plate type impellers. You can't rivet to the edge of a steel impeller. Anyway they don't sell them any more I just looked. Sort of beating a dead horse at this point.


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2001 Focus 2.0 Zetec
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1971 - Chevelle 408 SBC N/A
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motorman
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cast iron impellers were solid on the back side not open like the stamped steel ones because they bent the metal to form the blades which caused the openings


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Paul P
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I was looking for and couldn't find. Thanks. I am having a senior moment. Sorry .

As a tech inspector you must have seen some stuff most of us could not even dream up. Again my apologies for my reverse thinking on the application of the old plates.

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motorman
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no problem as at my age 78 i have CRS "can't remember s--t" some times
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