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need #'s to make decision on intercooler size

 
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yourconfused
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1992 Subaru SVX

PostPosted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 9:39 am    Post subject: need #'s to make decision on intercooler size Reply with quote

In an effort to determine intercooler size i was wanting to know what air temps people are getting under boost.

Like say you are pushing 15psi and your pre intercooler temp is 175F.

I am not looking to hear about running the proper size turbo and over running little ones and all that. I am just assuming those here did their homework and are running a proper system. I was just hoping that a few people have some sort of idea how hot the air is that they are pushing out of their turbo under full boost.

Thanks in advance for all the input to this and to my other posts.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run a Powerstroke diesel intercooler. My setup isn't turbocharged but data should be similar. Running a F1 Procharger head unit, I have seen discharge temps around the 230* range. After intercooler runs around the low 100's depending on ambient temp. I have seen from 150* to down to 90* on a cold day (high 30's ambient). This particular intercooler seems to be good to around the low 700 crank h.p. range. Above this it really starts to be out of airflow capacity. Data I have to back this up is currently my setup calculates to about 730 h.p. at the rear wheels. Measured pressure drop across intercooler and it was around 8 p.s.i. or more. 700 at the crank it would probably not be too bad on pressure drop. Clay
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yourconfused
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1992 Subaru SVX

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 11:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

clay wrote:
I run a Powerstroke diesel intercooler. My setup isn't turbocharged but data should be similar. Running a F1 Procharger head unit, I have seen discharge temps around the 230* range. After intercooler runs around the low 100's depending on ambient temp. I have seen from 150* to down to 90* on a cold day (high 30's ambient). This particular intercooler seems to be good to around the low 700 crank h.p. range. Above this it really starts to be out of airflow capacity. Data I have to back this up is currently my setup calculates to about 730 h.p. at the rear wheels. Measured pressure drop across intercooler and it was around 8 p.s.i. or more. 700 at the crank it would probably not be too bad on pressure drop. Clay


Thanks man. those are some numbers that I can work with.

Due to my engine bay having almost no room to work with i am looking to go w/ air to water setup. It will cost a little more but the fact that i can keep the pluming allot shorter will increase the responsiveness. If I only have 4' of pipe to compress before the intake vs 12' then i should get to full boost a little faster.

Anyone else have some numbers for me like Clay?

(edit to remove big pic)


Last edited by yourconfused on Tue Mar 10, 2009 8:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Output temp from "boost" will depend upon type of device doing the compressing. A centripetal blower is more efficient and has a lower out put temp than a screw or "high helix" roots style which still beats the old roots style all of which could be moving different volumes of air at the same temperature. A turbo heats the out put air by virtue of compressing it and through heat transfer through the impeller shaft from the exhaust side (plus being in close proximity to hot gasses causes traditional heating). So their is no standard response to the question. You could use the ideal gas law to calculate the increase in temperature just from the increase in pressure but gasses moving through a turbo or blower are hardly going to qualify as a steady state problem.

My suggestion is to build the pressure side and duct it directly into the motor and measure your air temp as a function of atmospheric conditions (temp, pressure and humidity will all effect final temp of the compressed air). Then build an intercooler to drop the temp as low as you can get it (each 10 degree drop equates to one percent more horse power at the fly wheel whether boosted or normally aspirated).

By the way you need to resize the picture of your SubaRoooo boxer six banger ("that's ok kid I cant say Chebrolay") as it causes all of the other posts to scroll off the screen.

Big Dave
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big_G
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:14 pm    Post subject: Intercooler Reply with quote

Guys...Any ideas on how good/bad the ProCharger 3 in. in/out units are?....Running 15-16 lbs. at the manifold now.

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clay
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as efficiency, I really don't know. I would think they should be pretty good. Their intercoolers are the bar / plate design which allows more flow and a little less efficiency. The Powerstroke that I have is the tube / fin design that is supposedly a little more efficient as far as heat transfer, but is a bigger restriction to flow. I'm going to have to make a switch sometime, I just haven't decided what to do yet - nothing for a while. Who makes the bonnet you are running? Might be some gains to be had there. Clay
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big_G
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The bonnet is from ProCharger. I was wondering about upgrading it. Any suggestions?
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 1:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what I run. It has a center divider that help to balance the airflow through the carburetor better. If you run it in the orentation you have which looks the same as mine turned 90* from foward facing, you will have to do some trimming to miss the vent tube / pump nozzles. Here is their site and some dyno testing they have done. Clay
http://www.superiorairflow.com/dynosheets.php

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big_G
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am running FAST fuel injection now, so the bonnet shouldn't affect fuel distribution much. Do you think in my application a better bonnet would be of any benefit?
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since you have made the switch to fuel injection, I would think any gains would be smaller than a carburetor setup. Maybe some minimal gains from the smoother turn, but to me, the main appeal of the extreme velocity bonnet is with a carburetor setup. Clay
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big_G
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, my latest data-log shows 90*F IAT (at the bonnet) max @10 psi boost, this after 10 minutes drive and 70* ambient air temp. Not too bad, IMO.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to get ambient temps colder than that to get 90* at the bonnet. Boost was about 13 p.s.i. Of course what you pay for one of the Procharger intercoolers, they should work really well. Clay
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big_G
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2009 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know the intercooler was pricey, but I figured the kit price I paid was not much more than if I bought everything separate with a cheap intercooler.
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yourconfused
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1992 Subaru SVX

PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to here and some talking to some local guys I have found that the little intercooler I can fit under my hood will be just enough to suit my needs with zero room for growth. I have opted to go for a meth injection to take up the slack of reaching the capacity of my intake charge cooling needs.

I am basing my cooling on this:
http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=218&products_id=203&osCsid=2a90f8d4d3596077de9b8429629c0e0b

and the meth on this:
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/ISG-100.html
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