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AFR Heads Oiling Issues
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lun40119
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Joined: 22 Oct 2008
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Location: Wisconsin
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1967 Chevrolet Chevelle

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input Clay, I am glad you spoke up having run these heads, however to blindly condemn these heads as junk because of reading about it and without ever running them, is silly. I cannot say if they are good or bad. I have no real opinion of them. I have tested World heads vs Dart heads, vs stockers on my SBC. Those 3 styles I have lots of feedback on. Camrat and I have made several trips to our machine shop and have been around a number of different heads. ProAction, Brodix, Canfield, and RHS to name a couple. I looked at them closely and have formed opinions of them off what I see, but have to real world data to support my opinions.

What I have learned is that all of the cylinder heads I have run, there is always something with one of them that just doesn't sit right. I know I have said it before here, anyone of us can google something and merely repeat what we read, but the most valuable advice is that which has been seen in person.

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clay
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I never ran the older 227's. I had them for about 2 years and when I started investigating what it actually takes to run them, I bailed. It's a case of me not doing the research and AFR sort of fudging the facts. They state no special valve train components needed other that their stud girdles. However, once you get them, they say that for the best reliability you need to run shaft rockers to take care of the offset needed for the 60/40 spacing. The 210's actually don't need anything special although I did have to do some clearancing for the pushrods not to rub. Here is a picture of the later style casting that doesn't appear to have any oil drainback issues. Clay

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96capriceMGR
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All the LT1 offerings are based on gen 1 heads anyway and the LT1 head was ahead of the aftermarket stuff that was available at that time. Who HAD a bigger R&D budget GM or anyone else. Granted all out performance is not their end goal so the castings are thin and some other compromises but the ports and chambers worked well for their day.

The old AFRs are Brownfield heads, musclecar era stuff DECADES behind in R&D, AFR admitted as much when they went and redesigned their whole lineup. Far as I am concerned the Eliminators are untested and I tend not to trust companies that sell such poor products for SO SO long. Shows a lack of integrity why would I trust them to have done things right now??

The examples you do see of AFR working are usually just stuff where the builder wanted a massive hole no finesse, just a big hole for air to move though. Most impressive LT Impala I know of has a set of AFR 227s on it, but a 434ci blower motor seeing 7-7200rpms is not exactly needing the finesse an NA one does. He just needed a big hole to cram air through. Even there I know of a turbo f-body using a 355 with ported stock castings that makes more power, and it has a cam smaller than I run in a stock shortblock NA car.

Edelbrock's LT1 package is SAD too, their intake has been shown to LOSE a slight amount of power and their heads/cam/intake package makes less flywheel than my car makes rear wheel. People still buy the crap because it has a name.

Maybe the Eliminators will prove to be good, I am just a bit more skeptical than most, and frankly that has served me well, I have certainly made mistakes, but not too many big ones in the past few years.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My verdict is still out on the AFR's. I haven't had a chance to really get some good tuning time on this combo yet to get it totally sorted out. I think they are a good head for the money, but not anything super special. Once you pony up the money to get about any other head professionally ported, AFR's don't really hold much of an advantage to me. The professionally ported head should be a better head. Even if it was CNC ported to do most of the major work, power is always in the details so some finessing by a knowledgable porter goes a long way. One problem I think exists with the AFR's is marketing. They are marketed as THE answer to horsepower. Good for sales, but I think this leads too many people to rely on the heads alone when the total combination of parts is always what matters. Clay
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osmiumfoot
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 2:17 pm    Post subject: Ditch dimensions Reply with quote

Back to the pictures at the beginning of the thread. I have a set of AFR 210s that are 3 years old so they aren't the eliminators, and they definitely have the pooling problem. I have sealed the intake twice with FP 1206 gaskets and still am pulling oil. I cut the problem dramatically by using Viton seals, but am still getting oil clouds on cold starts. How deep is the ditch, and how high are the chances of hitting water that close to the gasket rail?
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems like I remember him staying about 0.040" off of the bottom of the spring seat. I have read other places about the AFR heads having pockets in the casting in that area. I was reading about them when someone was trying to raise the exhaust port roof, but still in the same area. I don't think 86GN ran into any problems (dangerous to rely on my memory sometimes though), but I'll have to let him speak to be sure. Clay
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squeeezer
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1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

did i ever mention i like tfs Laughing

they have soooo much meat to remove for porting its funny

its hard to find negative feedback on them for sbc gen 1, and the sbf guys love em ,i believe they make an awsome lt1 head but i cannot personally back that up
honestlly i dont know anyone with a lt1 at the present time

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96capriceMGR
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 6:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The trickflow LT1 head is arguably the best LT1 aftermarket offering. Is based on the 195cc casting, they are coming out with a 21degree version of that head soon too.
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ditch dimensions Reply with quote

osmiumfoot wrote:
Back to the pictures at the beginning of the thread. I have a set of AFR 210s that are 3 years old so they aren't the eliminators, and they definitely have the pooling problem. I have sealed the intake twice with FP 1206 gaskets and still am pulling oil. I cut the problem dramatically by using Viton seals, but am still getting oil clouds on cold starts. How deep is the ditch, and how high are the chances of hitting water that close to the gasket rail?

Send 86GN a PM. He's the one who did it.

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jag327
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1982 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:12 pm    Post subject: AFR heads problems Reply with quote

Hi guys I'm new to the forum, I had a set of the CNC ported heads
210cc runners 66cc chambers, I had the same problem oil leaking in number 3 & 6 cyclinder - man AFR tech told me bad rings or head gaskets, so pull the motor replace rings and heads gaskets put the motor back in the car did the something. I AFR tech again now the guy was saying I may have installed the heads wrong funny, so I said I'm sending the heads back to have them check tech guy said ok. About 8 days pass I got the heads back, a new pair no other info about the other heads why the oil leaking and if they are going pay me back for the rings and head gaskets labor. So install the new heads motor ran find up until about 1200 miles oil leaking 3 cyclinder and a little in 4 man here we go again. So I sold them on ebay. I bought 2 set of procomp after check some of the cars at the drag strip just about every 10 cars 4 was using the heads and talk to a few machine shops. 1 pair running on a 350/40 and the making good power no leaks the other pair just got finish install them a 327/30 motor. So AFR heads just did not work out for me and cost me some more money to. I paid $1950.00 for the heads sold them for $1300.00 - use the money and bought 2 pair of the procomp heads.
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engine dr
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: afr lube Reply with quote

some guys are out there to win and they will take any and all measures to complte the process... i understand a low buck racer could badmouth any given product because he/she doesnt have the facts @ hand.....once i thought i was the best around WAKE UP.... I HELP PEOPLE AND THEY HELP ME ITS A TWO WAY STREET E.G. MY 2400 LB CAR 372 CU N/A 9.21 SEC I DID ALOT OF THIS MYSELF BUT I ALLLLLWAAAAAYYYYS LISTEN TO OTHERS DONT READ TO MUCH INTO ANYTHING PICK A BASE AND GO WITH IT Smile
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motorman
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NASCAR engine builders machine the heads so the valve springs are submerged in oil all the time to draw the heat from the springs. oil is what cools the spring and if not enought oil the springs go away. i watched a dyno test at GM were they used a see thru valve covers and the engine was set up so the oil to the top end could be shut off. less than 30 seconds the exhaust valve springs were glowing red hot so keep lots of oil on the springs if you want them to last.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought they just had spray bars inside the valve covers to directly cool the spings. If they have a pocket that the spring sits in to keep it partially submerged, what style of seal do they run? Probably not the all teflon seals I'm guessing or are they running a tall enough spring package that they can submerge the lower part of the spring and the seal still be just above the oil level? Just curious. Clay
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eldabo
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

did it fix the smoking problem?
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jag327
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Posts: 83
Location: PG County MD
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1982 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: afr lube Reply with quote

engine dr wrote:
some guys are out there to win and they will take any and all measures to complte the process... i understand a low buck racer could badmouth any given product because he/she doesnt have the facts @ hand.....once i thought i was the best around WAKE UP.... I HELP PEOPLE AND THEY HELP ME ITS A TWO WAY STREET E.G. MY 2400 LB CAR 372 CU N/A 9.21 SEC I DID ALOT OF THIS MYSELF BUT I ALLLLLWAAAAAYYYYS LISTEN TO OTHERS DONT READ TO MUCH INTO ANYTHING PICK A BASE AND GO WITH IT Smile


I'm not sure if this comment was for me. The guy I sold the heads to had them fix, he found that oil was passing through the 3 valves, the valves holes was a little lose, He had some type of bushing install in the heads to stop the leaks, that all I was told.

I sold the head because, I did not won't to ship the heads back again wait for them to come in. I'm stating a fact. Supercar Automotive had a few motors on the dyno 3 with PC heads I like the hp numbers the heads pulled, I found a good price on 2 pair of the PC heads and hop on them. The 1 set of the PC heads went on 327/30 small block.

I have set of the AFR heads on my mazda rx7 with a mopar motor.


I never thought of my self as low buck racer not cool at all.
If you ever come to US and do any of the big races in MD PA VA just let me no my low buck mazda will be waiting for you. I'll run with out nos hook up all motor.

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