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351 cleveland rebuild

 
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:50 pm    Post subject: 351 cleveland rebuild Reply with quote

a new project i have...........most likely this fall
i have a 71 mustang that needs a rebuild

i have always been a chevy guy
any suggestions
intricacies
on these engines are appreciated

the engine:351 cleveland bone stockticking (upper end)
2 bbl heads,intake and carb...again bone stock

the owner: wants factory re-build i think he is trying to say=budget

i just want to optimize what i have to work with and
raise compression ratio (need to with these heads)
mild cam
4bbl intake and carb

how are the oiling issues?
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af2
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Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Posts: 5557
Location: grassvalley, ca
71191.50 points


1933 Willys Coupe

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 351 cleveland rebuild Reply with quote

squeeezer wrote:
a new project i have...........most likely this fall
i have a 71 mustang that needs a rebuild

i have always been a chevy guy
any suggestions
intricacies
on these engines are appreciated

the engine:351 cleveland bone stockticking (upper end)
2 bbl heads,intake and carb...again bone stock

the owner: wants factory re-build i think he is trying to say=budget

i just want to optimize what i have to work with and
raise compression ratio (need to with these heads)
mild cam
4bbl intake and carb

how are the oiling issues?



The best thing to do is stay with blueprinting! Quench is the most important especialy if if the block is square.
Make sure the machining is what you want! Other wise you are at risk for a pissed of person.
Have a sheet that says all the clearances and so forth. Paperwork to a friend is better than him trying to scimp and blame you!

That motor is not friendly when we go there. Ask BAM you will see! (william jones) good luck!
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Big Dave
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Joined: 04 Dec 2005
Posts: 2644
Location: Tampa Florida
119910.22 points



PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was not aware they made a two barrel version of the Cleveland 351 heads. The only way I know to tell a Cleveland motor from the more common Windsor is by the water pump. The Windsor has the traditional 289/302 style waterpump were the Cleveland is different being almost flush with the block.

Makes a big difference in parts as they do not share a lot in common with each other. Most people who owned a street driven Cleveland thought the heads were too big for the street, it being a NASCAR hand me down designed for WOT operation.

I could be barking up the wrong tree. As my knowledge of Fords is all from what I have heard having never played with one of my own. The only Ford I ever owned came with my wife back on 1974 and it was a Maverick 302 4 Barrel 2 Dr Sdn that developed a bad power steering servo so we had to put it down.

Big Dave
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

the few things i know about these motors are
the 2bbl heads have smaller runners and larger combustion chambers

im currious ...i thought i heard something about oiling issues?
maybe im wrong
maybe its just a typical complaint about factory blocks not being a priority main oiling design...i dont know
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 351 cleveland rebuild Reply with quote

af2 wrote:
squeeezer wrote:
a new project i have...........most likely this fall
i have a 71 mustang that needs a rebuild

i have always been a chevy guy
any suggestions
intricacies
on these engines are appreciated

the engine:351 cleveland bone stockticking (upper end)
2 bbl heads,intake and carb...again bone stock

the owner: wants factory re-build i think he is trying to say=budget

i just want to optimize what i have to work with and
raise compression ratio (need to with these heads)
mild cam
4bbl intake and carb

how are the oiling issues?



The best thing to do is stay with blueprinting! Quench is the most important especialy if if the block is square.
Make sure the machining is what you want! Other wise you are at risk for a pissed of person.
Have a sheet that says all the clearances and so forth. Paperwork to a friend is better than him trying to scimp and blame you!

That motor is not friendly when we go there. Ask BAM you will see! (william jones) good luck!





this stuff i already factor into re-builds
if he wants me to do this
it WILL be on my terms (on machining)i may even have him pay for dyno time

if i want to screw myself ill stay home Laughing
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William Jones
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Joined: 30 Jan 2006
Posts: 820
Location: Lake city, FL
28456.50 points


1971 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey squeeezer we have been running Clevelands for a long time and they do have oiling issues at High RPMs above 6000 rpm for any length of time but for a street engine the factory oiling is just fine don't bother with the high volume oil pump the normal pump is just fine for street use and is what I use in the Mach 1. You can help the oiling if you are worried by running a line from the passage right above the filter to the rear of the block were the oil pressure sending unit goes steel tubing or braided hose works good here. If you want more oiling security then go to www.mpgheads.com and they have instructions and a kit to add oil restricters in the mains and some other places. You can get the parts yourself and use there instructions to install it.

The 2bbl heads are the preferred for the street due to the smaller runners clean up the exhaust side especially on the turn and inside the valve bowl you will see what i am talking about when you get them bare and can look at them. The intake side is plenty big for a street motor just do a little clean up and try not to loose alot of material here, the valve bowl will need alot of work like the exhaust side. If I was home I could send you some pics of a set I ported. The bad thing is these heads only come in open chamber unless you can get the extremely rare australian version of this head which has a closed chamber. Edelbrock does sell aluminum heads for them now and you can get a performer, performer rpm, torker, and a weiend excellarator intake. If the owner can afford the aluminum heads and intake you will be much better off and can make over 400hp with pump gas and a mild cam and stock cubes easily.

The blocks are pretty good but don't ever bore them more than .030 unless you are going to hard fill them. We put about 600hp on NOS through our stock block with no girdle and have never lost a block due to it failing (Damn valves breaking off) we due have ARP studs on everything. Other than that they like carburation for the street at least 650 to 750cfm should work.
Take a good look at the timing chain cover they like to rust out around the water passage and if it is bad there they become difficult to seal up and are hard to find. You can repair them so I would do it before you assemble it. One more thing the head gaskets thousands of people have made this mistake the passenger side cyl 1-4 gasket goes upside down just make sure the main water passage a the front of the block is not blocked by the gasket and you will be fine. If you have any other ? just ask and I will try to help. Later Bam

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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ill get back to ya when im closer to the re-build
for now its a front end re-build
new rear leafs
shocks all the way around
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PACE429
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Joined: 01 Oct 2006
Posts: 5
Location: Havre de Grace, Maryland
322.92 points


1973 Ford Mustang

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:55 am    Post subject: 351 Cleveland Rebuild Reply with quote

The 351C 2v heads are perfect for street and strip usage. The velocity is much better than the 4v version, thus better low end torque.

If you stay with the OEM heads, they will need to have hardened seats installed for use with unleaded fuels. The 2v heads are equipped with non adjustable rockers. Crane makes a kit to solve that problem. Get some price quotes for this machine shop operations and the required parts. You may want to go aftermarket on the heads due to cost.

Edelbrock also started producing 351C RPM Performer aluminum heads, complete with hardened seats, screw in studs, guide plate and good springs for about $1500. They boast that the are bolt on units, but I produced better results by cleaning and matching the exhuast ports. The OEM heads also flow very nice when some polishing and port matching is performed.

Use a set of 10.0:1 flat tops, a Voodoo cam and a 750 carb and it should run!

Depending on how much that you want to spend, you could also stroke the 351 to a 393 by using a Eagle "stroker" kit.

Now, as for the oiling problems:

(A) First start by blue printing the engine.

(B) Before final assembly and final cleanings, enlarge and deburr oil passages at the pump and filter areas. the goal is to increase flow & volume at these areas.

(C) Pay attention to oil returns. I enlarge all rear drains. I paint my lifter and cylinder head valleys with glyptal paint (available thru Eastwood).

(D) Install a windage tray and a good baffled oil pan.

(E) Use a good hi-volume oil pump and ARP pump drive shaft.

(F) Finally, add an oil line from the front to the rear. I've seem them for sale on eBay, but I make my own. This modification makes sure that the mains bearings receive enough oil volume. Some builders restrict oil to the cam, but it is not recommended for street and hyd. cam usage.

All this blueprinting, polishing and cleaning takes time, but proper clearances, oil volume and control are key in any performance engine. For some great tips on engine blue printing, check out the "Engine Masters" web site.
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 351 Cleveland Rebuild Reply with quote

[
Quote:
Use a set of 10.0:1 flat tops, a Voodoo cam and a 750 carb and it should run!





which pistons and......
which voodoo cam and will it work with pump gas[/quote]
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wagon train
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Orange City, FL
7307.16 points


1983 Mercury Capri

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing about camshaft is making Lobe Seperation narrow.The stock cylinder like 107*or tighter.110* its not very performace happy.Unless you are using the Edelbrock then they boast 109*-110*.
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tight lsa for torque
for this motor is for the street
good power 350 to 400 horse would be excellent
with a good exhaust note
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squeeezer
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007
Posts: 2427
Location: new richmond WI
191524.76 points


1991 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

what is the diff. between boss 302 heads and cleveland heads
i understand the difference between windsor and cleveland blocks and even clevor motors

it seems when i read up on this subject there seems to be some kind of familiararity?

wtf!??????
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wagon train
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Joined: 07 Jun 2007
Posts: 258
Location: Orange City, FL
7307.16 points


1983 Mercury Capri

PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The difference between Boss 302 and Cleveland heads are the water passages.302 heads come out in standard intake location,351 heads come out on the deck in the upper left and right corners.


There are several differences in the blocks.

351 Cleveland
9.2" deck height
2.75" dia. mains
Thermostat housing in the block

351 Windsor
9.5" deck
3.00" mains
Thermostat in intake

302 Windsor and or Boss
8.2" deck height
2.25" mains (I think,if not real close)
Thermostat in intake


Boss or Cleveland heads are Canted valve like big block Chevy

Windsor is an inline valve head like small chevy.

A Clevor is just Cleveland heads bolted to a Windsor block.
Windsor blocks are stronger in the bore the a Cleveland.

_________________
FORD POWER RULES DEATH TO ALL CHEVYS.

"BAKER"
10/5/50-11/7/06

"She doesn't seem to be breathing right,it might be the jets."-The Mechanic
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