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Throttlebody - mass air question

 
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:09 pm    Post subject: Throttlebody - mass air question Reply with quote

I have purchased a 94 Mustang for my wife recently and am in the process of returning it to a more drivable state. I was wondering of the gain I would get by running a larger throttle body and mass air. Currently has a stock 60mm and stock mass air. Car has following mods - mainly bolt ons - K&N air filter, GT40 intake, headers, off road H-pipe, Flowmasters, stock heads I did a bowl job on, stock cam, 3.73 gears and 5 speed. Not looking for another race car by any means, just something fun and reliable. I'm thinking about adding an adjustable fuel pressure regulator also for some tuning ability. Clay
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96capriceMGR
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Joined: 23 Aug 2003
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly I wouldn't screw with the MAF and adjustable regulator ubnless you can tune the pcm. The aftermarket acts like those are good tuning options but ONLY on vehicles with inaccessible pcms, because it is better than nothing.
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with 96capriceMGR. Put your wide band O2 on it and see how it's running.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Speedbrain, but honestly I really don't want to take the time to learn how to use it. The company that made it went out of business and I took it off for several reasons, one that sounds so minor but is really aggravating is it doesn't support an IAC increase when the air conditioner compressor turns on. I know there are ways around that, but I just don't want to screw with them on this car. My gut feeling is a larger throttle body and mass air will gain horsepower, but only in the upper rpm ranges that I don't really care about. Now that you mention it, duh, the Innovate would be pretty easy to stick on for a ride around the block to see what's going on. I just want it to be mainly stock and reliable, not necessairly the fastest thing on the street. Thanks guys, Clay.
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96capriceMGR
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2006 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a piggyback module of some sort???? Those are as halfassed as adjustable regulators and such, only good as last resort. I guess part of my resistance to these sorts of things is since my cars share a basic drivetrain and pcm with the Camaro/vette/firebird and is flash memory so complete access to the pcm through tuning software is just $90 with cables to hookup starting at about $30 unassembled.
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clay
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 9:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does completely replace the computer, but my friend said the more he played and learned about it, it did appear to him that someone had made some sort of device to interface or piggyback with a stock EEC-IV computer. I agree with you on the last resort thing, kinda like putting a carburetor on a FI engine. Other reasons I want the factory computer is they put in a lot of time and research and really do a wonderful job of calibrating the cold startup, idle and drivability and fuel economy characteristics that it would take me a long time to duplicate. I'll hold off on the regulator until I check the wide band but I would really prefer it if the factory computer could correct for the improvements since they are relatively minor and I didn't have to do a thing. Thanks, Clay.
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96capriceMGR
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1996 Chevrolet Caprice

PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now again my knowledge is mostly GM LT1 but when playing with a regulator something to keep in mind. On my vehicles if the fuel trims are adding fuel then the pcm keeps adding above the programming at WOT but if it was taking fuel out at part throttle due to the O2 feedback then it reverts completely to the programming. So for us it is best to get the fuel trims to be adding a SLIGHT bit of fuel so the WOT programming is being trusted and used. The Ford stuff might be different but I would think it would function along the same basic guidelines, this is simply a safety based on how dangerous a lean condition can be at WOT and that is the same for all gas engines.
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generis
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1993 Ford Ranger

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:20 pm    Post subject: computer differences Reply with quote

about the 94 stang.. in that year only ford put a shift delay in the timing advance to keep from busting the t5 in third gear. By this they took ANY throttle lift and retarded the ignition timing 5 deg for 1.5 seconds after throttle reapplied. therefore the shift feel is very sluggish on the 94. the rest of the thing is a 91-93. if you use a ford A9L comp from an older MAF car you will have a noticeable performance gain right there, as in the A9L comp the timing was the most aggressive street curve they let out. By comparison, the 94 was the worst. Might be worth looking into.

I usually shy away from the MAF and throttle body thing unless the driver has a pcm programmer.

Sorry, I just realized how old this post was.....LOL

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clay
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Joined: 24 Nov 2002
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Location: South Carolina
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1972 Chevrolet Nova

PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't worry about it being an old post, I still want to learn about this car. I have heard about the computer you are referring to, but I thought the pin out was different for 94 - 95 and prevented this swap unless someone makes an adaptor. I have a Speedbrain computer, but didn't like that it was missing some of the nice things the factory one has, mainly the idle speed increase when the AC compressor turns on and the other one is that it seems like no one uses them anymore. Clay
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generis
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1993 Ford Ranger

PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:42 am    Post subject: pinout Reply with quote

if you have a 94 with 5.0 engine and a distributor-type ign, the pinout is the same. in some 94 and most all 95 they switched to a distributor-LESS ignition with a double coil pack, and then you have a different pinout. . I have been in the 5.0 electrics for years, and I have never heard of a speedbrain. My personal favorite is a Tweecer. you can save the stock ecm settings and never truly disable the ford comp, but can run it on your own programs when you want..... this way you can enable or disable the ford programming and keep the a/c idle, and warm cruise pgms and and and, but still do displacement changes, cam profiles, airmeter and injector changes, and anything else you can think of. I am using one on a 318 dodge bored out and 2 turbos on it, and fitted with Ford EFI 5.0 mass air and a tweecer for that reason.
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MrChukls
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where can you get a twEECer? I've been looking around and must be dumb, because I can't locate one. I've heard that they are really nice to work with and you can program 5 different setups and switch between them even while the motor is running
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another option is AEM, they make a replacement computer for the mustang as well. Unplug your stock computer and plug the new AEM PCM in and tune away.
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MrChukls
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a V6 in my car... Can it be tuned for the Vulcan or no? I know the twEECer will work, but what about this AEM unit? I've also thought of a FAST XFI, but they're damn expensive
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SMOKEmUP
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1979 Chevrolet Camaro

PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know. Check out AEM's site and see if it meets your needs.
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