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Aluminum block growth
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The machine shop I use in Riverview Florida has a gas oven in the machine shop which takes the block up to 600F and by the time it's bolted into Sunnen machine and head plate torqued the temp is ready to hone.
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The_Raven
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big Dave wrote:
The machine shop I use in Riverview Florida has a gas oven in the machine shop which takes the block up to 600F and by the time it's bolted into Sunnen machine and head plate torqued the temp is ready to hone.


That's interesting, but what are the metalurgical effects of that? I mean that's a part of heat treating and would think that it would either make the block very soft or very bittle afterwards.

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af2
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Raven wrote:
Big Dave wrote:
The machine shop I use in Riverview Florida has a gas oven in the machine shop which takes the block up to 600F and by the time it's bolted into Sunnen machine and head plate torqued the temp is ready to hone.


That's interesting, but what are the metalurgical effects of that? I mean that's a part of heat treating and would think that it would either make the block very soft or very bittle afterwards.

I agree. I have put aluminum through a 600 degree phase to soften the metal. It works with any hardness aluminum. I don't understand why you would do that to a block. It seems it would put it in a state of soft. I have made head gaskets and heated them to 600 degrees to make them extremely soft to seal the chamber. Confused
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clay
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PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2006 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hot honing information was in the 2006 Engine Masters magazine. It is put out from the editors of Circle Track magazine. There were two guy mentioned in the article - Stephen Kuzara of Millennium Products Corporation and Dennis Wells. The gains they were talking about were small, but important in close racing. One NASCAR team said they were seeing 5 more horsepower after 50 laps of racing. Their was another article that covered making every cylinder count that was much more productive though. They tuned every cylinder for what it needed as far as cam specs, compression, timing, and AFR. They tested a 350 Chevy making a corrected 826 h.p. Cylinder by cylinder timing optimization pushed this to 836.5. Valve timing and compression pushed the total to 848.5. Another article that covered fuel distribution in the manifold was the best sales pitch there ever was for port EFI. They were seeing as much as 4 points difference cylinder to cylinder. Not 0.4 difference but 4.0! That is going to be my next major upgrade - probably a year or two away, but the potential of power can't be ignored. Very interesting stuff. Clay
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engine dr
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 9:49 pm    Post subject: aluminum block Reply with quote

in all my experience machining engines you should make all measurementts at room temp. all the internals will expand as they normaly would leaving all your clearances virtually the same. if i was to hone a pin bushing to .ooo6 at 60 deg f. and then someone at work decided to turn the heat on ? after all the parts have reached the new room temp. the clearance will be .0006
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Paul P
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we are splitting hairs here. Of one being hair challenged I think it should be left alone. Idea
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Big Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have only a receding hairline (so as a fence sitter, I can go either way). The oven in my machinist shop is for heating blocks to remove paint and grease and to get them ready to be welded. It can raise a block to 1,800 if he wants too, but he usually just preheats them, and uses a hot oil spray to keep the block at the desired temp while he finish hones it. (kind of like an electric heater dropped in your coffee cup to keep your coffee warm on the way to work.)

The LSx motors are not all made of the same material, and as such they have different rates of expansion. The sleeves are cast iron and do not expand as fast as the block, that is why they are screwed (threaded) in instead of pressed. GM engineers learned from the Vega that an all aluminum motor which will work in racing applications fails in street use; they also learned from the ZL-1 430 cid racing motor that pressed sleeves in an aluminum block leak.


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Paul P
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is some good stuff Dave. I did not know that the LSx blocks sleeves are screw in.
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engine dr
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:21 pm    Post subject: just a thought Reply with quote

the sleeves in any block a not screwed in, they are cast in place and or wet/dry sleeves witch are removable and replaceable e.g. K.B. hemi/ block which a lot of people use as a pro mod block/foundation, these blocks are beat to hell and you just hammer in a new and or used sleeve wack it back together and give her . ive put these engines back together w/.010 clearance and.008 out of round. this engine went 6.23@ 227 mph. just how critical do you want you be, get a program and stick to it .....................................MANTINANCE.............it wont fix itself
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engine dr
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 16, 2006 8:45 pm    Post subject: furthermore Reply with quote

a dragrace engine never really gets HEATSINK, this is when all the internal parts are totaly heated to ther max.between rounds these engines are tipicaly allowed to cool. when an alum block is machined we usualy allow it to stand for 20 mins. after machining and check bores for straight and or out of round,usualy we have to give them a rub in the midle of the bore to make them straight..............LETS SEE IF HAANS WANTS TO GIVE US ALITTLE INPUT...................
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